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Date:      Tue, 19 Feb 2019 08:17:48 -0800
From:      Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com>
To:        freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Pete Wright <pete@nomadlogic.org>, "Rodney W. Grimes" <freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net>, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
Cc:        Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@freebsd.org>, Niclas Zeising <zeising@freebsd.org>, "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>, Stefan Blachmann <sblachmann@gmail.com>, FreeBSD Current <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>, Steve Kargl <sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu>, Vladimir Kondratyev <vladimir@kondratyev.su>
Subject:   Re: What is evdev and autoloading?
Message-ID:  <362D8283-0B7D-402F-99CD-657021597955@cschubert.com>
In-Reply-To: <11a49d72-3158-1b9a-f933-6702d8f5c238@nomadlogic.org>
References:  <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <11a49d72-3158-1b9a-f933-6702d8f5c238@nomadlogic.org>

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On February 18, 2019 9:17:37 AM PST, Pete Wright <pete@nomadlogic=2Eorg> wr=
ote:
>
>
>On 2/18/19 8:50 AM, Rodney W=2E Grimes wrote:
>>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 9:12 AM Rodney W=2E Grimes <
>>>
>>> I don't know=2E I think the fact that drm2 doesn't support anything
>newer
>>> than 5-year-old hardware is a pretty convincing evidence that the
>old way
>>> is broken and doesn't work=2E
>> But it DOES work, I am pretty sure we have 1000's of users on that 5
>year
>> old hardware that are totally happy with the intree DRM2 that is in
>stable/12,
>> and some of whom have ventured into head/13 are having issues with
>thete a
>> "new" model (ie kmod broken by a base commit)=2E  I know that there is
>wip
>> to get CI coverage for that, but wip is wip, and we need to start
>changing
>> the cart horse driver order we keep doing and get things right=2E  Port
>> up and working, with CI testing *before* we go remove kmod'ed code
>from
>> base would be a much more appropriate path=2E
>>
>> I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things
>> simply on the "5 year old" basis=2E  Not everyone, and infact few now
>> a days other than corporate buyers, can afford new hardware,
>> giving the minimal performance increase in systems over the last 5
>> years the cost/benifit factor of a new computer is just too low=2E
>I've put a lot of effort helping test and document how to get a usable=20
>desktop environment on a modern laptop=2E=C2=A0 there were two issues whi=
ch=20
>motivated me to do this:
>
>1) my observation that many developers at conferences and online were=20
>using macOS as their primary desktop environment=2E=C2=A0 when comparing =
this=20
>to the OpenBSD and Linux community I felt pretty embarrassed, but it
>did=20
>explain the stagnant nature of our graphics subsystem=2E=C2=A0 people see=
med=20
>afraid to touch things due the brittle nature of its hardware support=2E

I noticed this too=2E And every time it struck me as odd=2E

>
>2) i was in need to an *affordable* machine with a warranty=2E
>fortunately=20
>there are many affordable laptops at staples, best-buy and amazon - but
>
>they were all post haswell systems, rendering them basically useless=20
>from a FreeBSD perspective=2E

Which is why removing drm2 was necessary=2E=20

>
>after trying to get traction to update the in-tree drm subsystem i was=20
>lucky enough to sync up with the graphics team which was working on=20
>syncing things up with modern hardware support=2E=C2=A0 because of that i=
'm
>now=20
>able to get my small startup pretty much all on board with FreeBSD=2E=C2=
=A0 i=20
>use it on my workstations as well as on or server infrastructure=20
>(physical and AWS)=2E=C2=A0 i would consider this a success for our commu=
nity=20
>as it's opened up the eyes to a whole new generation of devs to
>FreeBSD=2E
>
>one thing missing from all of these arguments is real data=2E=C2=A0 how m=
any=20
>people are on haswell era hardware?=C2=A0 i can tell from my experience t=
he=20
>past several years the number of people who have post-haswell gear seem
>
>to be more numerous, or at least more vocal (and frankly easier to work
>
>with while squashing bugs)=2E
>
>i can also say that personally it would be great to improve support for
>
>systems requiring drm2 - but that gear is hard to come by, so we are=20
>really dependent on helpful collaboration from those who are being
>effected=2E

Drm2 is not required=2E My current laptop is 5 years old, an HD3000=2E The=
 previous one is 13 years old, i915=2E Both work perfectly with drm-current=
 on 13-current=2E Franky, I don't see what the fuss is about=2E


>
>
>-pete
>
>--=20
>Pete Wright
>pete@nomadlogic=2Eorg
>@nomadlogicLA
>
>_______________________________________________
>freebsd-current@freebsd=2Eorg mailing list
>https://lists=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current
>To unsubscribe, send any mail to
>"freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd=2Eorg"

The only irritation with drm-current is after doing a NO_CLEAN build ARC i=
s large enough that on occasion a video may not play because X is unable to=
 get the memory=2E Other than that it works better than drm-legacy -- with =
no artifacts=2E

--=20
Pardon the typos and autocorrect, small keyboard in use=2E
Cheers,
Cy Schubert <Cy=2ESchubert@cschubert=2Ecom>
FreeBSD UNIX: <cy@FreeBSD=2Eorg> Web: http://www=2EFreeBSD=2Eorg

	The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few=2E



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