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Date:      Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:26:24 -0400
From:      Paul V. Bolotoff <walter@alasir.com>
To:        alpha@freebsd.org, alpha@netbsd.org
Subject:   Re: X on NetBSD
Message-ID:  <1465.1185233184@alasir.com>

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Well, there are several problems actually. First of all, the SRM BIOS emula=
tion
layer which translates i386 BIOS code to Alpha. It isn't perfect, so that s=
ome
hardware doesn't even start up. Secondly, many drivers fail during software
bootstrapping through int10. It isn't a problem on i386, but some kind of
emulation is required on Alpha once again. Finally, broken PCI DMA makes a =
real
trouble. Doesn't seem to be fixable without getting rid of those obscure
*_bus_space macros though. For some reason, there are even more problems on
NetBSD than on FreeBSD. Maybe syscons is a better deal for X if compared to
wscons\pccons or the reason is somewhere else (for instance, working module
loader on FreeBSD). The fact is that some video hardware runs well on FreeB=
SD but
doesn't on NetBSD no matter how hard you try. In general, if you're serious=
 of
running X on *BSD\alpha, get a bunch of PCI video cards (old probably) and
give'em a try. Some should work. In particular, when it comes to FreeBSD 4.=
11 and
XFree86 4.5.0 on my AlphaPC 164LX, I have succeeded with 3Dfx Voodoo 3 and
Banshee, NVIDIA\STM Riva 128 as well as with several Trident cards. Neither
Matrox card worked though. I cannot tell of X.Org because I don't use it. I=
'm not
into licencing battles, but if some people decide they want a credit for th=
eir
hard volunteered work, I guess they can have it for sure, and that shouldn'=
t be
promoted as the primary reason for this fork in development. I also don't r=
un
FreeBSD 5.x or 6.x on Alpha because I see very few to no real
advantages\improvements compared to 4.x. Maybe it's a matter of taste. Have=
n't
tried XFree86 on NetBSD for a long time.

PVB

On Tue Jul 17 20:48 , 'Rafael Ruiz' <gandano@gmail.com> sent:

>Hi All!
>I would like to know why *BSD has problems with X (Xorg or XFree) on Alpha
>Platform. I like NetBSD, FreeBSD, but i have a lot of problem for use X on
>these. X runs very well on Linux/Alpha but i would like to work with BSD a=
nd
>to make a workstation with X. Why *BSD don't let X work on Alpha? This in
>not problem of X. In old versions of FreeBSD like 4.5 and so, XFree ran
>good.
>
>I think that BSD/alpha is better that Linux/Alpha .... but do we must to
>limit at console/text mode only? Due to i can not to use X on FreeBSD, nor
>NetBSD, I check OpenBSD, but it has the same problem. In NetBSD we can to
>build xsrc (XDecNet, XFree86,...), but only for 21164 processors, with 212=
64
>it seem not work. We can to use caseydoodley Xfree86 modifications
>too(thanks mel), but with some limitations.
>
>We only have two options:
>
>        1.- For Workstations with graphical environment -> Linux
>        2.- For Servers (Text mode) -> BSD
>
>Is this our only choice?
>
>It's a pity that BSD has this problem with X, it is the best free Operating
>System for Alpha. Does think NetBSD or OpenBSD developers to open the door
>for X in the future?
>
>Opinions? Solutions?
>
>Thanks for your comments.
>Rafa
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