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Date:      Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:41:39 -0700 (PDT)
From:      "Jason C. Wells" <jcwells@u.washington.edu>
To:        FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Changes to X11 licensing with X11R6.4
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.3.96.980411114851.245B-100000@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <199804071524.IAA29054@kithrup.com>

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On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Sean Eric Fagan wrote:

> First of all:  everyone who buys a CD-ROM must agree to the license.  That
> means paperwork.
> 
> WC must now keep track of sales and give this information to a third party.
> (Admittedly, they do this already to a degree, for Chuckie.)  Go ask, say, Xi,
> about what it's like to sell Motif.
> 
> I read the license.  It's a binary-only license.  I couldn't find anything in
> it about selling source licenses.  I truly hope I missed something.
> 
> Lastly, it's morally objectionable.  I won't pay it.  Ever.  Not to The Open
> Group.

I must first admit that I am a latecomer to the free software community.
My discussion may be impeachable in this regard. Still, I sincerely
"believe" in free software.

The open group documents make specific mention of XFree86 not having to
pay royalties to distribute X11R6.4.

Getting XFree86 X11R6.4 free of charge from the net seems feasible given
the exception that TOG specifically makes.

How this relates to WC putting "XFree86 royalty free X11R6.4" on a CD
and selling it is beyond me. WC might be considered to have made a
derived work for commercial purposes and therefore subject themselves to
a royalty.

I adhere to the "morally objectionable" statement made above. This is
the crux of the freely available software dilemna. The same issues
abound when one considers "GPL vs BSD" licensing. How do we reap the
benefits of free software without being taken advantage of by commercial
efforts? Should we worry about being taken advantage of?

The feeling I get is that TOG does not want folks getting a free ride.
Yet their is something sinister in their position. So here comes my
argument...

My concern and fear is the TOG have themselves gone commercial. Their
website hits me as a commercial effort all the way. You sure can
purchase a lot of "credibilty" (sic) from them by putting one silly
brand or another from them on your software. They somehow try to spin
this into a "we are doing it for your own good" issue. (IMHO)

You know. FreeBSD would be a lot better if it had a "UNIX Brand" (tm) on
it. JKH, fork out the license fee now !!! (heavy sarcasm)

My other concern is that TOG wants to "take" from the free software
community (read you and me) and give to themselves. Their position
smacks of an elitism that they are the protectors of the faith looking
out for the best interests of the serfdom. They want to take something
that has heretofore been "free", encumber it with royalties, and then
claim that they are acting in "our" best interests.

Their is a big question remaining to be asked. It is eluded to on the
XFree86 site. They are "considering" their position regarding the new
licensing.

Shall the free unix community (including all of us bsd types and linux
folks) break ranks with TOG and build from X11R6.3 or fall in line with
TOG?

If we fall in line with TOG, then I submit that we detract from the free
software cause.

Regarding the TOG highly _CONTRIVED_ FAQ at
http://www.camb.opengroup.org/tech/desktop/x/xlicensefaq.htm

**** block quote ****

Question: 
Will the "free" community be able to use this technology, or does
this just split the industry into free and proprietary branches? 

Answer: 
X Window System technology continues to be free to the "free"
community. We've heard rumblings that this change will
force suppliers of "free" technology to stop shipping X11. We don't
agree. Organizations like XFree86 will continue to
be able to distribute X as they do today. But, companies who take
the "free" technology and sell it, will not. Companies
making money distributing X Window System technology should support
its development. Many do not today. The end
result is that there is not enough funds to keep it going. The
"free" community may feels they want to reimplement the
technology so they can give it away to other companies to sell.
That could fragment the industry. 

**** end block quote ****

OBTW, TOG arrogantly states the free software community could end up
guilty of fragmenting the industry. This annoys me. TOG has made the
split. Period. End of discussion. This statement is an attempt to
villanize the folks who believe free software should be free.

"There won't be enough funds..."

Has there ever been enough funds? Enough funds for who? Enough funds for
TOG? I am skeptical in this regard.

Does FreeBSD have enough funds? Does FreeBSD enforce a roaylty? The
answer is no on both counts.

Well, after all this discussion, I read the XFreee86 site. Boy what a
waste of typing. It seems things have already been settled.

There position is here http://www.Xfree86.org/news/pr-980407.html .

Most notably, "The TOG licensing change is incompatible with the goals
of XFree86 and most of the free software community that have been
in communication with The XFree86 Project directors over the last week."

Bravo XFree86!

Have fun,	 | Stop warning me about the latest virus. Learn more...
Jason Wells	 | http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html


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