Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2020 10:31:22 +0100 From: Julien Cigar <julien@perdition.city> To: Victor Sudakov <vas@sibptus.ru> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Technological advantages over Linux Message-ID: <20200317093122.GB1183@x1> In-Reply-To: <20200317050226.GC19098@admin.sibptus.ru> References: <mailman.19358.1581761921.21074.freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> <fde4cbec-efa0-de36-18f9-696e5cdfea3d@defert.com> <20200215141238.GY1879@aurora.gregv.net> <20200316110246.GB95052@admin.sibptus.ru> <20200316114638.GD1410@belspo> <20200317050226.GC19098@admin.sibptus.ru>
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On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 12:02:26PM +0700, Victor Sudakov wrote: > Julien Cigar wrote: > > > > > > > > The insanity of systemd is a large part of what convinced me > > > > to migrate all my personal machines from GNU/Linux to FreeBSD > > > > a couple of years ago. > > > > > > I've just come across two related things which may convince me to > > > migrate some machines from FreeBSD to Debian. > > > > > > 1. On Debian, you can run several instances of php-fpm with different > > > PHP versions in them. > > > > > > 2. On Debian, you can install and run several versions of PostgreSQL > > > simultaneously thanks to the pg_createcluster/pg_lsclusters/... > > > infrastructure. > > > > > > All that from standard packages, without manual compiling and tweaking, > > > jails etc, with minimal effort. > > > > that's true, but once you setup a dedicated Poudriere machine, > > I do have a dedicated Poudriere machine. It can *build* different > versions and combinations of PHP/whatever (even that not always unless > you build separate -z sets with different make.conf files), > unfortunately you cannot *install* them simultaneously. > > > that all > > your deployments are happening in jails, > > *All" deployments in jails is an overkill. > why? jails are so lightweight and are created almost instantly.. > Using jails will be especially counterproductive in case of PostgreSQL > because you will not be able to do smart things like > "pg_update --link --old-datadir XXX --new-datadir YYY". there are workarounds, see 20190829 un ports/UPDATING for an example. > > > that you use some CMS (like > > SaltStack), and that everything is based on ZFS it's a *lot* easier to > > maintain on the long term, and you have a lot of flexibility. I think > > I don't quite agree with you. Keeping multiple jails in an updated > state, and building multiple Poudriere sets (combination of packages) > for all your service jails is a huge administrative overhead best > avoided when not absolutely necessary. that's what I'm doing here and it's perfectly manageable (with SaltStack).. > > > > > I have to deal with some very old (15+ years) shit at work that isn't > > updated but has to be accessible (webapps) (don't ask) and thanks to > > jails and things like rctl I could stil use that latest -RELEASE while > > isolating the old shit in 10.x-RELEASE jails. Try to do that with > > Linux.. (I don't say it's impossible but it would require a lot more > > work IMHO) > > That's a different matter when the use of jails is justified. However, > for having nice and supported php72 and php73 packages simultaneously > you don't need such security measures. After all, FreeBSD has learned to > have different versions of Python. > > PS Debian's pg_*cluster framework rocks! > > -- > Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN > 2:5005/49@fidonet http://vas.tomsk.ru/ -- Julien Cigar Belgian Biodiversity Platform (http://www.biodiversity.be) PGP fingerprint: EEF9 F697 4B68 D275 7B11 6A25 B2BB 3710 A204 23C0 No trees were killed in the creation of this message. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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