Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:47:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey <chuckr@picnic.mat.net> To: David Schwartz <davids@webmaster.com> Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: cvs commit: src/sys/pci pcisupport.c Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9905122331200.401-100000@picnic.mat.net> In-Reply-To: <000101be9cee$72a70310$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to>
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On Wed, 12 May 1999, David Schwartz wrote: > > > The point is, while it's possible for someone who can't code to come up > > with some great idea, it's seldom happened. > > Perhaps this is something unique to FreeBSD then. The vast > majority of the good product ideas I have ever heard came from > 'mere' users of the product. It's possible our experiences differ. I'm mainly interested in OS work, and I tend to ignore much user stuff. Could that be it? At least in OS work, what comes from users are "I like this" and "I don't like that", not "do it this way". The folks who chime in with requests for huge coding projects, and get insulted when everyone else doesn't want to drop all their doing and work on their pet projects do not get my respect. This happens fairly often. > I'm not saying you have to cater to people. I'm not saying you > have to be helpful. I'm saying don't be positively unhelpful and > dishonest. And "If you think that's such a good idea, why don't you > code it?" is sarcastic and dishonest. Why do you think I owe you code work? If I want to do something, and I CAN do it, an dyou want to do something else, and you CAN'T do it, it seems to me to be pretty clear, who is going to get priority. > Saying, "this is not the forum for batting ideas around" is > nothing at all like "if you think that this is such a good idea, why > don't you code it?". Why are you attempting to equate them? Because you are asking others to do your coding for you. Aren't you embarrassed to ask others to do your work for you? Such things would embarrass me. FreeBSD is written by volunteers, not paid folks. They code what they want to code, and NOT what you want them to. They listen to the general populace wants, but what they code is their decision. In saying "why don't you code it?", they're trying to get you to understand the difference in the FreeBSD development process. It's developer-driven. It's only user-driven indirectly. You may not like that, but it does in fact reflect reality. By the way, where's the sarcasm in "why don't you code it?" I'm not being sarcastic here, I mean it, how come you take that so harshly? I honestly can't see why. > I'm the Director of Coding for the DALnet IRC Network, and I > made a rule for our coding list -- if you ever say "if that's such > an idea, why don't you code it?" in the middle of a debate over the > merits of a feature, you lose your posting privileges. And I'm as > tired of bad ideas coming from people who can't code as anyone. I > even don't mind "that's a bad idea, but you wouldn't be able to > understand why." At least, it's honest. Yes, but you're not running a develop-driven open source free coding project. Your viewpoint is different. There is no one person in your position, to hand down fiats. The folks in control are the developers, and it's done by and for the developers. Concentrate on the idea that it's developer driven. Perhaps that's at the base of your argument? You think it is, or maybe should be, more user driven? If so, maybe it's right. Of course, then, I and most of the folks that write the code would leave. The rest could hold arguments about how they'd like to have things coded. Don't read this last paragraph as sarcastic, it's not meant that way; it does reflect the truth, I think. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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