Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:33:06 -0700 From: Devin Teske <dteske@vicor.com> To: Bruce Cran <bruce@cran.org.uk> Cc: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org Subject: Re: removing the junk. Message-ID: <1277227986.9209.119.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <20100622173621.000044a4@unknown> References: <AANLkTik3Afnh3ctxTLS6aPwYyV-kQ08shh-TdWWUpzLO@mail.gmail.com> <1277221641.9209.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1277223066.9209.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20100622173621.000044a4@unknown>
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On Tue, 2010-06-22 at 17:36 +0100, Bruce Cran wrote: > The traditional Unix people will say "they should learn" and that we > don't want to encourage the sort of people to FreeBSD who won't. Agreed... > However, I think having a UI for some stuff is nice, though we need to > be careful that it doesn't turn into a full sysadmin tool, since then > people will start hating how it doesn't edit rc.conf (it only appends), > and it'll be something like YaST that hides the real functionality and > just annoys people with its limitations. We should make sure that we > highlight the rc.conf manual pages etc. It's easy to forget that new > users may not realise there's this whole load of system configuration > documentation already installed on their machine. Doubly-agreed... In postulating paths that we can take: a. Remove these options Pro: sysinstall becomes cleaner (??) Con: One less place that this feature can be configured b. Alter the way these options are presented Pro: sysinstall becomes cleaner Con: Engendered professionals have to learn a new interface (though, arguably, engendered professionals either perform the action manually or are perfectly willing to learn as they've already decided to stay with FreeBSD. I'd take the latter over the former (despite the fact that I don't use sysinstall to configure any services). I whole-heartedly agree that we should foster an heir of learning in both the way that the configuration options are presented and the way that configuration is performed. Just some food for thought: - Configuration options should use language similar (if not exactly the same) to that which is familiar to professionals whom manually configure the very same options. For example, in configuring the NFS server use language such as 'nfs_server_flags' -- rc.conf setting -- rather than something which may later-confuse such as "NFS Daemon Parameters" (which may be sensible at a high-level discussion but to foster familiarity with the underlying actions associated with configuration, the former is better than the latter. - Pressing F1 should provide a "full-disclosure" type detail about the configuration, how values are "committed" -- e.g., "options set here are translated into flags which are saved in the `nfs_server_flags' variable in the file `/etc/rc.conf'". - Display in header/footer (say, on the main configurator page for some feature) a nice high-level man-page string (id este, "NFSD(8)") so the user -- assuming they know what said string means -- knows where to go for more info. - Display some caption alerting the user when there is F1-text available to be viewed (e.g., "Press F1 for more info"). - Have some semi-verbose progress-output. For example, while settings are being applied, perhaps have a modal dialog (which requires no action) simply pop-up to say "doing xyz" where 'xyz' should be some indicator to bang the user over the head (for example, if the thing that they are using sysinstall for is really simple, ... like setting the timezone ... the dialog could say "linking /etc/localtime to /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles". The dialog should be visible for some minimum amount of time (such as 2-3 seconds). If the user uses sysinstall to do this configuration enough, they should repeatedly see that message and eventually say to themselves "hey, maybe I could do that by hand!" (which of course, emphasizes the need to have the messages elate precisely what is being done). - Lastly, some generic log-file with detailed info could be invented to subsequently "teach" users how to do things manually by-way-of precise logging. All we'd have to do is bang them over the head with the location to the logfile after the configurator is done applying their desired settings ("A detailed log of recent changes has been appended-to and can be viewed at `/var/log/sysinstall.log'). Naturally, the code ought to check that we're able to save a log, just keep in mind that sysinstall can and is used from the installed/booted system. -- Cheers, Devin Teske -> CONTACT INFORMATION <- Business Solutions Consultant II FIS - fisglobal.com 510-735-5650 Mobile 510-621-2038 Office 510-621-2020 Office Fax 909-477-4578 Home/Fax devin.teske@fisglobal.com -> LEGAL DISCLAIMER <- This message contains confidential and proprietary information of the sender, and is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure by any other person is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the e-mail sender immediately, and delete the original message without making a copy. -> END TRANSMISSION <-
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