Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 15:15:06 -0400 From: John Baldwin <jhb@freebsd.org> To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Cc: Garrett Cooper <yanegomi@gmail.com>, Devin Teske <dteske@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: New Boot Loader Menu Message-ID: <201210091515.06082.jhb@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <201210091503.17909.jhb@freebsd.org> References: <0655B56F-AD43-402B-872C-568378E650F9@fisglobal.com> <5D193023-90EC-4E8D-9FB9-D8D6468DF6A7@fisglobal.com> <201210091503.17909.jhb@freebsd.org>
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On Tuesday, October 09, 2012 3:03:17 pm John Baldwin wrote: > On Tuesday, October 09, 2012 2:41:29 pm Devin Teske wrote: > > > > On Oct 9, 2012, at 11:18 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > > > > > On Tuesday, October 09, 2012 11:25:19 am Devin Teske wrote: > > >> …Re-adding the list… (good point) > > >> > > >> On Oct 9, 2012, at 8:15 AM, Garrett Cooper wrote: > > >> > > >>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Devin Teske <devin.teske@fisglobal.com> > wrote: > > >>>> …Re-adding the list… > > >>>> > > >>>> On Oct 8, 2012, at 12:42 PM, olli hauer wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> ... > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> You'll also get zero argument out of me that putting "Delete" on- > screen > > > is not only to-be-avoided for the opposing situation (that some keyboards > may > > > not have a "Delete" but instead "Backspace") but indeed "Delete" is worse > > > because the implied connotation associated with the "Delete" key > (_someone_ > > > might be confused into thinking "Delete" will purge the menu from memory). > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I will play with keycodes. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Just be aware that currently left arrow CANNOT work. That is a bad > > > suggestion (read why below). > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> In Forth, I'm using the "key" primitive which -- rather unfortunately > > > -- produces a zero for "left-arrow", "right-arrow", "up-arrow", "down- > arrow", > > > "F1", "F2", "F3", "F4", "F5", "F6", "F7", "F8", "F9", and "F10" (note: it > > > doesn't catch "F11", "F12", "F13", "F14", "F15", or "F16"). > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> So all those key options are right-out when it comes to "using them > > > instead of Backspace" (I simply can't identify in the loader when those > keys > > > are pressed). > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> ... > > >>>>> > > >>>>> will the space key work for a general back to or up one entry? > > >>>>> I suspect the space bar has the same keycode on all platforms > > > (intel/appel/ppc/sparc ...) > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Anyway nice work :) > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> By golly, I think olli is on to something here! > > >>>> > > >>>> What does everybody think about space? > > >>>> > > >>>> I like it because it's a NICE BIG TARGET (and it's not used by anything > else). > > >>> > > >>> It was used once upon a time to pause the bootloader countdown… > > >> > > >> Well… that hasn't *really* been true since r222417 (16+ months ago). > > > > > > Yes, you completely destroyed POLA for users used to hitting various keys > > > to catch the boot loader before it passed by over remote KVMs. > > > > Wait, what? > > > > I did no such thing. > > > > If you had users mashing random keys during the menu, the old functionality > was to keep the timer rolling while they mashed away. > > No, not random keys. Keys like '6' to escape to the loader prompt or '4' to > boot into single user. > > It's water under the bridge as far as the new menu in 9.0 (and I thought that > in that instance renumbering everything might be worth it to make the keys > more logical as a one-time hit), but gratuitously changing the mappings of > what specific keys mean is not helpful to users, and based on your reply, you > don't get that at all. It is the lack of empathy for other use cases that > most worries me. :( FWIW, I hadn't realized / remembered correctly that someone else changed the order in 9.0 and that your original menu changes preserved the bindings. I would just like to avoid changing existing key bindings as much as possible going forward. -- John Baldwinhome | help
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