Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 23:41:11 +0200 From: Mathieu Prevot <mathieu.prevot@gmail.com> To: Ivan Radovanovic <radovanovic@gmail.com> Cc: Russell Haley <russ.haley@gmail.com>, romain@freebsd.org, Freebsd-mono <freebsd-mono@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: maintaining ports and mono Message-ID: <CAP8XrcuNNGrEP4qMi%2B2tps02b3VC32Qp-4kGCYgBUGC%2BVQ7Jaw@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5763A1F6.9090501@gmail.com> References: <CAP8Xrcs7DTM-y2QqZY3sTRX2GzRKpOGOSHK%2BZXTkY09Txq6YoQ@mail.gmail.com> <CABx9NuTr0UqTUKe8_yY45F0eHhhNhE8xarqGcvbukxSU5ETMCg@mail.gmail.com> <CAP8XrcttkJ0AOPW0L1OfdYrceryaRQZE4knhgF-8QhFP-=x3vQ@mail.gmail.com> <5763A1F6.9090501@gmail.com>
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2016-06-17 9:08 GMT+02:00 Ivan Radovanovic <radovanovic@gmail.com>: > On 06/16/2016 21:53, Mathieu Prevot napisa: > >> >> >> 2016-06-16 20:08 GMT+02:00 Russell Haley <russ.haley@gmail.com >> <mailto:russ.haley@gmail.com>>: >> >> Hi Mathieu, >> >> I have expressed interest in helping maintain mono on FreeBSD but have >> moved away due to lack of interest and support. Currently someone has >> ported more recent versions of Mono (Romain I think?), but MonoDevelop >> is somewhat out of date. I had patches to build MonoDevelop with >> Rolsyn but couldn't get the MonoDevelop github repos to work with >> FreeBSD ports so I gave up after multiple requests for help on both >> this mailing list and the FreeBSD forum. >> >> Other .Net things I'd like to see: >> - Ivan had some patches for kqueue issues, he passed them on to me but >> again, I have moved away from .net on FreeBSD >> - I would like to see a port of Pinta on FreeBSD >> (https://pinta-project.com/pintaproject/pinta/) because gimp makes me >> want to throw my computer >> - I once built and ran .Net Core and would like to see if that has >> progressed, perhaps put together a FreeBSD port for it. The ultimate >> goal in my mind is to update MonoDevelop to use .net Core >> - Porting and testing asp.net <http://asp.net>; and MVC to FreeBSD >> - Testing the latest mono on FreeBSD CURRENT for ARM >> >> I had also at one point seen a possible business model helping clients >> get their .net software off of Windows to save $$$ and create >> resalable appliances, but that idea died on the vine. >> >> Ultimately, there are so many development options on FreeBSD, I moved >> to something that was better supported (lua), but I really really miss >> that big beautiful framework. I guess there's always Java, or Python, >> or Ruby... :( >> >> >> There are many points here, from .NET to IDEs and business. >> >> IMHO having .NET framework work is good, APS.NET <http://APS.NET>; too. >> Ultimately, having WPF too would be amazing. I'm planing to probe this >> with the WPF team. >> There is request on UserVoice (Microsoft interface for feedback and >> features requests) of opening WPF sources, which is possible. >> Microsoft recent policy is to make Windows the #1 platform for software >> development, and have GNU tools work natively in Windows. >> Their Azure platform now supports FreeBSD 10.3 VM. >> Despite everything, they will want probably to make sure Windows still >> have competitive advantages, making the WPF and ASP.net not that likely >> to be available/ported/opened. >> >> Historically and to my knowledge, GNU/Linux was used for desktop at >> Google, and FreeBSD rather for servers. Having FreeBSD a stronger dev >> platform is questionable and might require a lot of energy/time/effort >> from the community. >> >> Have you tried java/javaFX/openGL ? >> >> M >> >> > Hi Mathieu, > > IMHO opinion there is no interest to have Mono running properly on FreeBSD > from either side. Original mono developers are even proud to say they don't > care about having it run on *BSD, > Do you have reference to such thing ? list archive ? I think it might be right in the past, the teams might have changed, and the mindset might have changed, and ultimately, does it matter ? > and I guess based on amount of feedback you got on this list you can draw > your own conclusions about enthusiasm coming from this side. > I understand this too. However, people are not necessarily fast and everything. People have also their own projects, preoccupations, availability / will / time. I give few days to get the temperature of the community. My mindset is not: do we need this, but rather: what can we do with this ? and: which opportunities does this brings to FreeBSD ? And then: what am I willing to give in term of time/energy for this ? For enterprise purposes, often productivity comes first, and results, warranties comes first, and in that case, people are willing to pay (say Microsoft) to have a certain level of productivity and results. Then there is their policy: do we spend more money on dev man power, or more in proprietary software, or hardware ? just policy, IMO. > We at company still have some production ASP.Net applications we are > running using mono/FreeBSD with some patches I wrote both for mono and > their fastcgi server, but AFAIK those never found their way either to > FreeBSD port or main mono repository, and I really don't have enough time > to spend it convincing people to use free source I wrote - what is > interesting web server patches fix some OS independent bugs with socket > handling they have, but maybe they thought they were also FreeBSD related > :-) > Sounds really good :) Do you have an idea of the amount of lines / hours to do such thing ? I keep all that in mind ! I keep probing and will come back to you. Many thanks for proposing this. > I think there is also problem with attitude with mono guys - it seems > there is perception (as you put it in "GNU/Linux was used for desktop at > Google, and FreeBSD rather for servers") that there is no need to actually > have .Net running on FreeBSD, but according to my experience serious use of > .Net is in web applications, and that is server side usage. > I see. Again, do you have archives about this ? when this happened ? If Microsoft is interested, they might influence the Mono community : they sponsor them. > Anyway, in company we are not using C# for any new development (we > switched back to C++), but we stayed with FreeBSD (I guess for us the only > way to have stable mono on FreeBSD would be to fork entire project, and > that would require manpower we don't have at the moment). > C# have many serious advantages such as linq, tasks, GC, the VM and many things of a modern object oriented language. To me it's one of the most pleasant language to work with, as a programmer. Then yes, the ecosystem matters first. Many thanks for the opinion and details. Cheers M
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