Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 15:18:11 +0200 From: Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> To: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" <steve@sohara.org> Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Docker Message-ID: <CA%2B1FSigftsBXrcJQ3aOc0m4s35yfxaZ90YNLBiJmoYmuKXWmLg@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20230417135251.08c45b7f8c82749b979efe58@sohara.org> References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <CA%2B1FSijc%2B-OLNsyFNdR=jP3VzMi4zUE92i5iv9Pfg6AryDy_KQ@mail.gmail.com> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> <CA%2B1FSihVrJ8cZ4ZU6mMr0sKJsZ98V4fh2vpDLugw7MGj-%2BEBPg@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSijL50mQ-HveBA4HZeNkSoaORv=aty-15nNLzn9amzY_nw@mail.gmail.com> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <CA%2B1FSigV_pPwVW%2BDd8WZYGcNQVt7%2BYOcsnJFoRhS6jL5A636pg@mail.gmail.com> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> <CA%2B1FSihVPCQ6tp8u=aqnLyyOPpCMrnhYGcC8bCUgRbFHTdY5sA@mail.gmail.com> <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> <20230412155252.5e38ea4728bd52dc798852fc@sohara.org> <1d0a7ed1-9330-49df-9b66-9ee4387de511@app.fastmail.com> <78F4160A-2D26-4A22-9139-A9132FC42688@ellael.org> <20230417133223.3ef5e26c.freebsd@edvax.de> <CA%2B1FSihn%2BB6LTUm7gof6Nd=niL5=dMvQ46HUv=NJ2%2BNhcLS7RQ@mail.gmail.com> <54e45838-28df-d99d-f063-e2613589a98d@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20230417135251.08c45b7f8c82749b979efe58@sohara.org>
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--000000000000f387c305f988072e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How is it hard for you to agree with the adoption of docker / kubernetes for the masses even if you will never use it ? Is it hard to think of developing something that will produce benefits for someone and in a certain sense for FreeBSD in general,even if you will never use it ? I think that if you love something (or someone),you should be ready to make other people happy and their happiness will be your happiness. You don't like tools created using the lego system engineering ? ok don't use them. But you can't deny that these kinds of tools have some advantages. Accepting this assumption means to have a pragmatic mindset. To be too much focused on fine details is a sort of exaggeration like a lot of other ones. And in general,every exaggeration produces negative effects. On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 2:53=E2=80=AFPM Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.or= g> wrote: > On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 08:29:09 -0400 > Valeri Galtsev <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu> wrote: > > > I agree both with you, Mario, and Polytropon. Docker can be used by > > unskilled person. But with the same potential results as when unskilled > > person builds car for oneself. The only reason why to the contrary to > > car falling apart on unskilled person who built it oneself, I do not > > much care about the results of unskilled person using docker. > > I tend to think of Docker and Kubernetes as the Lego of system > engineering. Provided you're dealing with well defined, well behaved > components the ability to string them together into large scale > applications without worrying about the fine details is a great thing. Ju= st > like Lego you don't need to understand how the motor works, or what the > processor module uses for a bus you just hook them together and depend on > them being engineered well enough to cope. This is what underpins a great > deal of the modern web/social media/cloud infrastructure so it can't be a= s > anarchic a mess as some think it is - or perhaps it is - but it does work > well enough to hold up huge five nines sites. > > I would hate to try and administer thousands of servers in a > complex scalable layered client/server system using FreeBSD jails and > native or ports tools. It might be possible but it would be a lot of work > by many skilled admins even using things like Puppet or Ansible to help. > With Docker and Kubernetes it is straightforward to do this sort of thing > with rather fewer and less skilled admins. > > That being said I don't do that so I don't want those tools and > if I did I know where to find them. > > -- > Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org> > > --=20 Mario. --000000000000f387c305f988072e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">How is it hard for you to agree with the adoption of docke= r / kubernetes for the masses even if you will never use it ? Is it hard to= think of developing something that will produce benefits for someone and i= n a certain sense for FreeBSD in general,even if you will never use it ? I = think that if you love something (or someone),you should be ready to make o= ther people happy and their happiness will be your happiness. You don't= like tools created using the lego system engineering ? ok don't use th= em. But you can't deny that these kinds of tools have some advantages. = Accepting this assumption means to have a pragmatic mindset. To be too much= focused on fine details is a sort of exaggeration like a lot of other ones= . And in general,every exaggeration produces negative effects. <br><div><br= ></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail= _attr">On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 2:53=E2=80=AFPM Steve O'Hara-Smith <<= a href=3D"mailto:steve@sohara.org">steve@sohara.org</a>> wrote:<br></div= ><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border= -left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 08:2= 9:09 -0400<br> Valeri Galtsev <<a href=3D"mailto:galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu" target=3D"_= blank">galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu</a>> wrote:<br> <br> > I agree both with you, Mario, and Polytropon. Docker can be used by <b= r> > unskilled person. But with the same potential results as when unskille= d <br> > person builds car for oneself. The only reason why to the contrary to = <br> > car falling apart on unskilled person who built it oneself, I do not <= br> > much care about the results of unskilled person using docker.<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I tend to think of Docker and Kubernetes as the= Lego of system<br> engineering. Provided you're dealing with well defined, well behaved<br= > components the ability to string them together into large scale<br> applications without worrying about the fine details is a great thing. Just= <br> like Lego you don't need to understand how the motor works, or what the= <br> processor module uses for a bus you just hook them together and depend on<b= r> them being engineered well enough to cope. This is what underpins a great<b= r> deal of the modern web/social media/cloud infrastructure so it can't be= as<br> anarchic a mess as some think it is - or perhaps it is - but it does work<b= r> well enough to hold up huge five nines sites.<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I would hate to try and administer thousands of= servers in a<br> complex scalable layered client/server system using FreeBSD jails and<br> native or ports tools. It might be possible but it would be a lot of work<b= r> by many skilled admins even using things like Puppet or Ansible to help.<br= > With Docker and Kubernetes it is straightforward to do this sort of thing<b= r> with rather fewer and less skilled admins.<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 That being said I don't do that so I don= 9;t want those tools and<br> if I did I know where to find them.<br> <br> -- <br> Steve O'Hara-Smith <<a href=3D"mailto:steve@sohara.org" target=3D"_b= lank">steve@sohara.org</a>><br> <br> </blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br><span class=3D"gmail_signature_pre= fix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature">Mario.<br></d= iv> --000000000000f387c305f988072e--
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