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Date:      Wed, 22 May 2002 16:46:30 -0400 (EDT)
From:      cjc26@cornell.edu
To:        Rahul Siddharthan <rsidd@online.fr>
Cc:        "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog@FreeBSD.ORG>, Brad Knowles <brad.knowles@skynet.be>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Sanskrit numbers (was: French, Flemish and English (was: cvs commit: src/sys/alpha/alpha clock.c))
Message-ID:  <Pine.SOL.3.91.1020522160649.23407A-100000@travelers.mail.cornell.edu>
In-Reply-To: <20020522192335.P47352@lpt.ens.fr>

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On Wed, 22 May 2002, Rahul Siddharthan wrote:

> They undoubtedly have some sort of link, but is this
> "proto-Indo-European" some sort of guess or reconstruction, or is
> there actual evidence for it somewhere?

It's a reconstruction, based on the huge number of regular sound
correspondences between Sanskrit, Greek, Latin, English, and many other
languages spoken in Europe and South Asia.  There's no written evidence
for it, as it was spoken well before the invention of writing, but any
claim that it never really existed would have to explain where all these 
sound correspondences come from (and no, "mere coincidence" doesn't count 
as an explanation :)


> How do people arrive at
> "Hoi(H)nos" and "h3ekteh3" (how do you pronounce those "3"s?) in PIE?

Sorry, those are supposed to be "h"s with a subscript "3", which is kind
of an unusual sound pronounced something like "hw".  Linguists arrive at
these reconstructions by looking at corresponding sounds in different
languages and figuring out what would be the most likely sound in the
protolanguage that could develop into the corresponding sounds in the
attested languages.  An easy example is the reconstruction of PIE /p/ --
Sanskrit /p/ corresponds to Latin /p/, Greek /p/, Hittite /p/, Avestan
/p/, Lithuanian /p/, Old Church Slavonic /p/, Tocharian /p/ (do you see a
pattern here :), and Gothic /f/ or /b/ (both of which are very similar to
/p/, in that they are pronounced using the lips), so what a linguist would
say is that the protolanguage had /p/, while Proto-Germanic underwent a
sound change that changed all instances of /p/ to either /f/ or /b/.  (Not
all of the reconstructions are this simple, of course)


> Who are the people who spoke it -- the Aryans who are believed to have
> originated from around the Caspian Sea?  If so, how do we know
> anything about their language -- is there any kind of record they left
> behind at all? 

Well, we can tell a little about where they lived and what their culture
was like based on which words we can reconstruct in the protolanguage. 
So, for example, we can reconstruct the words "sow", "plow", and "cow", so
we know that they knew about agriculture and raising livestock.  We can't
reconstruct the word for "chicken", though, so that suggests that they did
not live any farther east than Persia.  Also, we can reconstruct a word 
for "metal", but not for "iron", so that suggests they lived sometime 
during the Bronze Age.


> Yes, I suppose I could try look up the book you cited, but I'm lazy :)

I really recommend taking a look at Beeke's book if you're at all 
interested in the subject...it's a good introduction to historical 
linguistics.  You could also try googling for "historical linguistics", 
"comparative method", "proto-indo-european", etc.


-- 
Cliff Crawford          ::          cjc26 at cornell dot edu

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