Skip site navigation (1)Skip section navigation (2)
Date:      Mon, 02 Dec 1996 19:02:00 -0800
From:      "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
To:        "David S. Miller" <davem@jenolan.rutgers.edu>
Cc:        dyson@FreeBSD.org, dennis@etinc.com, kpneal@pobox.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, torvalds@cs.helsinki.fi, lm@engr.sgi.com, iain@sbs.de, sparclinux@vger.rutgers.edu
Subject:   Re: TCP/IP bandwidth bragging 
Message-ID:  <14423.849582120@time.cdrom.com>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 02 Dec 1996 21:17:34 EST." <199612030217.VAA18178@jenolan.caipgeneral> 

next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
> You assertion poorly assumes that all of us agree that the benchmarks
> in question are in fact meaningless.  Many people (people in the "real
> world") will disagree with you.

Fine.

> And as for the marketdroid's tally sheet, that sells machines
> pinhead.  If you think it does not, why does the government spec

How nice that you are able to present your arguments without resorting
to name-calling - the mark of someone who's genuinely secure in his
technical abilities.  And how did Linus get dragged into this, anyway?
Is this the modern equivalent of calling for Daddy, or what?  I'd
think he had better things to do, as do I, so this will be the last
round.  If I felt it was worth my while to get into a debate with you,
I'd make the time, but the tone your arguments are taking don't
indicate this as a strong possibility.

> lmbench numbers for all purchases these days?  What concrete numbers
> are you able to put on that tally sheet?  None, because whatever
> benchmarks the freebsd people are using to perform their improvements
> are under lock and key, most likely because once the Linux crowd had
> these at their disposal, we'd fix the problems they show because

You're gravely misinformed.  First off, you assume that we play the
numbers game in the same way that you do when we manifestly don't.  We
don't brag out about our lmbench numbers just as we don't walk around
with our pants off carrying rulers and comparing penis lengths, and I
think this whole silly thread all started off in reaction to your
.signature.  If public a display of your bulging manhood is what it
takes to floats your boat then have at it, but don't expect us to play
the same game and certainly don't castigate us for refusing to play.

Second, we don't have a "tally sheet" because we know that a tally
sheet *for the numbers we find meaningful* would be essentially
useless for anyone else's comparison purposes.  Short of building an
ftp.cdrom.com of your own, or lining up someone like Yahoo to build a
dozen Linux servers which get beat to heck with millions of web hits a
day, there's simply *no way* for you to compare numbers with us, as
good as they might be (and I'm not saying they wouldn't be, simply
that there's no way to know without a nearly identical playing field).

Given the wide disparity between what we feel to be important and what
you feel to be important, how is any meaningful comparison even
possible?  Take the hint - it's not, at least not until/unless you
build some truly beefy servers we can see numbers for.

> I think it is funny how the Linux crowd brags about numbers that
> anyone can grab the sources for and run for themselves.  Whereas the

I find that funny too.  Good thing we agree on something.

> I'll be running numbers with 50 or so workstations pummeling a web
> server over 3 or 4 100baseT lines and 4 10baseT lines, we'll see if
> your arguments hold.  And if they do, I have to thank you, because you
> have shown me a way in which my system can be improved.

I hope for the sake of your tests that you increase this well beyond
50 work stations.  Get someone to put the server at a NAP and (I'm
perfectly serious) find some free porn or popular shareware to stick
on it for a week.  That will attract more than enough web users, far
more than 50, and you can see how the machine truly performs under the
onslaught.  I'm sure there's got to be a Linux fan somewhere with a T3
or better connection who'd be willing to make this a meaningful test.

I'd be interested in the results.  Until then, I think it's in everyone's
best interest that this thread end.  We all have better things we should
be doing.

						Jordan



Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?14423.849582120>