Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:52:34 -0400 From: Mike Tancsa <mike@sentex.net> To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make world error in RELENG_2_2 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970619185234.00a47e10@sentex.net> In-Reply-To: <199706192208.HAA29716@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> References: <3.0.2.32.19970619140035.00a32100@sentex.net>
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At 07:38 AM 6/20/97 +0930, Michael Smith wrote: >Mike Tancsa stands accused of saying: >> At 06:39 PM 6/19/97 +0930, Michael Smith wrote: >> >You've still done something wrong. I am in the process of a >> >'make release' right now, and apart from our CVS server maching throwing >> >a gear in the middle of the checkout it's going fine. >> > >> >The machine running the release, incidentally, has been doing checkout, >> >make world cycles since last Friday evening. >> > >> >THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH 2.2. >> > >> >I don't know why, or what has broken peoples' systems, but it's nothing >> >wrong with the tree. >> >> If there is nothing wrong, why were so many people having problems all of a >> sudden? > >There's no "all of a sudden" about it. These sort of complaints are a >continual feature of the landscape. I'm just at that point in the >month wher they set my teeth on edge. Ahhh... so, what is the point of the mailling list then ? Are people only supposed to post success stories? >> the changing of the /usr/include structure was also a 'problem'... Look, I > >Huh? I haven't seen any include-related "problems" at all. I guess the end of May wasnt that time of month for you... There were several posts about it in questions. I dont think people are trying to lay blame, or even criticize the efforts of the FreeBSD developers... But you would call it incompetence, if someone with who started with 2.2.1, tracking 2.2-RELENG, who happily does a dozen or so make worlds, then all of a sudden gets a build failure is automatically user error ? If its not documented anywhere that you have to blow away /usr/include, how are you supposed to automatically know that? And, if these lazy ass people who have these problems should not post to the mailling list, because it pisses people off, what are they to do ? You are only discouraging people from using FreeBSD by this elitist attitude. > >> miss a post that details a change to the tree structure.... Now, if there >> was a README file of some sort included with the cvsup process, detailing >> any manual interventions necessary in the make world process, this would >> help avoid situations like this. But blindling blaming the user saying >> there is nothing wrong doesnt help matters, nor is it correct... > >The point here is one of assumed competence; Oh... well, when I climb out of the pit of incompetence, I wont have any of these lazy ass problems like not knowing enough to rebuild my /usr/include when make world fails. Gee. I just wish I was born with that knowledge instead of having to ask about it. Whats the big deal about adding a few lines to the docs like the 3 points JK made ? That would go a long way to prevent you from getting your "teeth on edge." >you are taking the line >"as providers of the roads, the gov't is responsible for making them >safe for everyone to drive on". I would counter with "as a careful >road user, I humbly suggest that people take lessons, and practice >somewhere safe before attempting to drive." Ahhh no... More like "The government should post a sign saying 'Danger, bridge out on Route B'"... But I guess if you are driving at night and you dont see that the bridge is out and there is no sign to warn you, its your own damn fault. >I particularly resent changes and impositions (such as attempting to >maintain an impossible README) that are meant to make things OK for >people that are too lazy or careless to learn for themselves. So why have any documentation at all ? >Firstly, they don't work. Secondly, they make life less enjoyable for >the rest of us. So dont read the README?!?! Let us who are in the darkness of mediocraty and incompetence waste our time as we are spoon fed by documentation.... Sheesh! >(I really need my morning coffee; sorry for any crabbiness in the >above, it's something that's been bubbling for a while now) ---Mike (who perhaps had too much coffee) ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa (mike@sentex.net) * To do is to be -- Nietzsche Sentex Communications Corp, * To be is to do -- Sartre Cambridge, Ontario * Do be do be do -- Sinatra (http://www.sentex.net/~mdtancsa) *
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