Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 08:12:10 -0800 From: Dennis Glatting <freebsd@pki2.com> To: Jan Beich <jbeich@FreeBSD.org> Cc: Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com>, Steven Hartland <killing@multiplay.co.uk>, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, Adam Weinberger <adamw@adamw.org> Subject: Re: Welcome flavors! portmaster now dead? synth? Message-ID: <1512490330.66238.7.camel@pki2.com> In-Reply-To: <fu8q-mnbc-wny@FreeBSD.org> References: <CAN6yY1ujLFdKpuG4Rxz%2Bfww9gAxTBaY14iCB7RFTkh-oVB1%2B9A@mail.gmail.com> <BN6PR2001MB1730A16025654AB7C452111B80390@BN6PR2001MB1730.namprd20.prod.outlook.com> <CAOc73CD9VnLKv8-jBNW1Uj05LnEFh6kkZFKNAxp-EG9YO_AUxA@mail.gmail.com> <1512211220.79413.1.camel@yandex.com> <BN6PR2001MB17309152A0FC3776781AB53B803E0@BN6PR2001MB1730.namprd20.prod.outlook.com> <20171202184356.GA980@lonesome.com> <b0e44e55-5fc9-af2a-22c8-bfa0d30c866f@columbus.rr.com> <20800E88-36EC-49C4-A281-EA6BAB212DBF@adamw.org> <048e2faf-873e-beb5-35fe-ad8f3f8ea5be@columbus.rr.com> <9BFBB00F-0786-4B92-A564-EABD0179BD93@adamw.org> <CAHEMsqbUVcaC_P5%2BzC-cb9uB8TFdgWZZCCQ%2Bd0KfjW0fEADe1A@mail.gmail.com> <1512352031.73246.1.camel@pki2.com> <fu8q-mnbc-wny@FreeBSD.org>
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On Mon, 2017-12-04 at 18:10 +0100, Jan Beich wrote:
> Dennis Glatting <freebsd@pki2.com> writes:
>
> > 1) I am tired of port breakage. I am past tired of being told to
> > read
> > UPDATEs when UPDATEs often has limited information, including
> > install
> > conflicts.
> >
> > 2) "Error 70" on installs with no indication of where the error
> > was
> > incurred and thus requiring me to make with debug flags and then
> > dig
> > deep is past annoying.
>
> [...]
> > Further:
> >
> > 1) Under FreeBSD I do not do binaries, rather I do source and I do
> > source for reasons. Under Linux, source is troublesome.
>
> I'm curious what are those "reasons" that don't affect Linux. Those
> may
> be valid FreeBSD shortcomings unlike what you've listed above which
> is
> mainly about source vs. binary packages.
Source verses binaries are valid "reasons" and are based on application
and operation placement.
With source, I can compile out optional code (e.g., SQL hooks in
OpenLDAP) whereas binary packages are often compiled to be all things
to all people (i.e., more functionality is offered). Although one can
argue that inclusion of compile-time optional code into a binary is
only operationally enabled through a proper configuration, there are
problems with that argument:
1) The compile-time optional code may not be truly disabled
through configuration files,
2) Some functions are enabled by default, and
3) They represent threat vectors.
If you do not include compile-time optional code then reduced threat
vectors.
Linux is a series of trade offs. If application code is written with
CUDA then you have to support the application with all of its warts and
baggage. If I /have/ to do source under Linux then I have to do source
but I don't /want/ to do source because the process is often ugly.
Another trade off, which annoys the hell out of me, is NetworkManager
verses other "helpful" tools. None of those tools are fun when doing
custom networking, which includes VLANs and IPv6 as if those are new
advanced concepts, and configuration is different across Linux
distributions including Debian Stretch and Raspberry PI3 although
they're running nearly the same version of Debian.
It is maddening. Hulk want to smash!
With FreeBSD, I simply hack a few files in /etc and I'm good to go.
Also under FreeBSD, what I need to configure in /etc is often obvious
and I don't have to waddle through gobs of confusing, unrelated, and
often erroneous documents and Internet posts. FreeBSD isn't perfect but
FreeBSD has this useful thing called a Handbook.
I can, and do, enable IPTables in Linux and IPFW in FreeBSD for added
protections but if a threat vector isn't there (i.e., not in the
binary) then there are less exploitable threat vectors - it's
discernible math at that point. Do I want to manage lists of IPTables
and IPFW? No. They get complex and create breakage paths.
When one is required to have heterogeneous infrastructures one wants
commonness and simplicity while at the same time not admitting to that
bottle of whiskey in one's desk drawer. I often strip stupid stuff,
such as NetworkManager, and life gets simpler and less migraine prone.
That all said, my response was based on the point of that the finite
resource sword cuts both ways. If one operating system increases my
annoyance and another does not, there is a point where my bias leans.
Oh, and "hell no" to Windows. It's evil and I live across Lake
Sammamish from the Evil Empire.
--
Dennis Glatting
Numbers Skeptic
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