Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2026 18:53:20 +0300 From: Eygene Ryabinkin <rea@freebsd.org> To: Gleb Popov <arrowd@freebsd.org> Cc: Vladimir Druzenko <vvd@freebsd.org>, Charlie Li <vishwin@freebsd.org>, ports-committers <ports-committers@freebsd.org>, dev-commits-ports-all@freebsd.org, dev-commits-ports-main@freebsd.org, Alexey Dokuchaev <danfe@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: git: ef9180aa8469 - main - science/py-scipy: update to 1.17.1 Message-ID: <j3uotvqupofbmnoxes75bhda74knuomx5hdv3acsspl6nfhyc2@dney653nqxyi> In-Reply-To: <CALH631kW-KxA2t6cTu8JY7ztV8cR1b2qYtDhcnuJwMWup0cGHg@mail.gmail.com> <CALH631mLkdvM1YxjcWNigRni3_DZFZhPGMTdK-_%2B%2BqBoTKNFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
index | next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail
I'll be a bit rude. Hopefully, that's not a problem. Tue, Apr 07, 2026 at 08:28:16AM +0200, Gleb Popov wrote: > On Tue, Apr 7, 2026, 02:54 Vladimir Druzenko <vvd@freebsd.org> wrote: > > 05.04.2026 00:54, Charlie Li пишет: > > > This part is unspoken, but bears speaking and documenting somewhere > > > better than bugzilla and mailing lists: building Python packages on a > > > live environment, ie without environment separation like virtual > > > environments or jails (poudriere included) is not supported, even if > > > the ports framework makes it technically possible to try. Historically, this is the other way around: ports framework allowed to build in the system itself, but over the time (and accumulating arguments like "library/package detection in autotools and others pick stuff from the live system, so the virtual environment is the /only?/ way to go") it shifted to your "is not supported". > > You just wrote that one of the main advantages of FreeBSD over other > > operating systems "is not supported". > > > > Building in an non-isolated environment is certainly not an advantage and > even does not have anything to do with the OS. > > > It makes me very sad to see how FreeBSD is being turned into yet another > > Linux distribution, but with the worst compatibility with other Linux > > distributions… "This" to the large extent, ... Tue, Apr 07, 2026 at 10:48:19AM +0300, Gleb Popov wrote: > On Tue, Apr 7, 2026 at 9:40 AM Alexey Dokuchaev <danfe@freebsd.org> wrote: > > > Building in an non-isolated environment is certainly not an advantage and > > > even does not have anything to do with the OS. > > > > It is a huge advantage and it *is* about the OS because FreeBSD is one of > > the very few offering this out of the box. It might not appeal to you > > particularly, but many of us heavily depend on this great feature! ... this also, ... > Building on the host is a natural foundation for building in isolation. We enter > the jail and then invoke plain make. It is the same for Linux even with crappy > RPM - there is rpmbuild that stands for our make and there is mock/koji for > poudriere. No, rpmbuild is the virtual environment (buildroot) maker and mock/koji are the providers for the builds for multiple OS versions (say, 10.x, 11.x and 12.x) inside the base OS (say, 12.x). > But I digress. The bottom line is that the only supported way to build packages > for FreeBSD is Poudriere, so I'm asking for 100th time to stop grumbling on > the ML about breakages that you've chosen to bump into. And there is another view on this: it is not "you've chosen to bump into", but rather the user of FreeBSD (and, perhaps, the power user?) who still remembers the "good old days of ports" (I am not joking: port building used to be fun, at least for me; then, around 2011 it started to be annoying with OPTIONS, especially the custom ones, then /around 2020s? A bit earlier?/ it started to be an almost no-go to build packages for the system inside the system itself when I needed to support ~50-150 packages on each server), says "it is why I still use and, perhaps, love FreeBSD for". You really dare to drop such users? Why? Because it is the minority? Or because "the (current or, even, modern) life is so, that <<the only supported way to build packages is Poudriere>>; just live with it"? Since when I am using FreeBSD? Since 2.0.5. Since when I am using it at scale (100s of servers)? Since approximately 2008. I am not crying or whining, but you, perhaps, can explain yourself a bit better than "The bottom line is XXX, stop grumbling" or point me to the place (on the ML? On the Web) where you did that already? -- Eygene Ryabinkin ,,,^..^,,, [ Life's unfair - but root password helps! | codelabs.ru ] [ 82FE 06BC D497 C0DE 49EC 4FF0 16AF 9EAE 8152 ECFB | freebsd.org ]home | help
Want to link to this message? Use this
URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?j3uotvqupofbmnoxes75bhda74knuomx5hdv3acsspl6nfhyc2>