Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 09:10:16 -0500 From: Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Docker Message-ID: <8f65dddf-185f-8154-ad8e-47aefb5f8021@tundraware.com> In-Reply-To: <20230417135251.08c45b7f8c82749b979efe58@sohara.org> References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> <CA%2B1FSihVrJ8cZ4ZU6mMr0sKJsZ98V4fh2vpDLugw7MGj-%2BEBPg@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSijL50mQ-HveBA4HZeNkSoaORv=aty-15nNLzn9amzY_nw@mail.gmail.com> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <CA%2B1FSigV_pPwVW%2BDd8WZYGcNQVt7%2BYOcsnJFoRhS6jL5A636pg@mail.gmail.com> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> <CA%2B1FSihVPCQ6tp8u=aqnLyyOPpCMrnhYGcC8bCUgRbFHTdY5sA@mail.gmail.com> <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> <20230412155252.5e38ea4728bd52dc798852fc@sohara.org> <1d0a7ed1-9330-49df-9b66-9ee4387de511@app.fastmail.com> <78F4160A-2D26-4A22-9139-A9132FC42688@ellael.org> <20230417133223.3ef5e26c.freebsd@edvax.de> <CA%2B1FSihn%2BB6LTUm7gof6Nd=niL5=dMvQ46HUv=NJ2%2BNhcLS7RQ@mail.gmail.com> <54e45838-28df-d99d-f063-e2613589a98d@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20230417135251.08c45b7f8c82749b979efe58@sohara.org>
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On 4/17/23 07:52, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > With Docker and Kubernetes it is straightforward to do this sort of thing > with rather fewer and less skilled admins. I agree with the spirit of your point but not that last bit. We do want to get to the point where we can "treat servers like cattle" but docker and K8s don't really do that on their own. You have to do a ton of engineering to make that environment deployable, scaleable, self-annealing, observable, etc. Some years ago, I worked at a place where we brought a brand new mission critical system up on K8s. This was a high complexity application with lots of legacy integration corner cases. We implemented it in 8 months and then spent another 5 months hardening. The tuning and hardening of the K8s and cloud environment it runs on continue to this day. It's easy to experiment and fiddle around with docker, it's much harder to build industrial grade solutions. Docker doesn't absolve us of the engineering discipline required to build really complex systems. Then again, no technology or process and eliminate thoughtful engineering ...
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