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Date:      Fri, 13 Sep 1996 00:00:24 +0200 (MET DST)
From:      Philippe Regnauld <regnauld@tetard.glou.eu.org>
To:        rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth)
Cc:        regnauld@tetard.glou.eu.org (Philippe Regnauld), hackers@freebsd.org (hackers)
Subject:   Re: A complaint about procedure.
Message-ID:  <199609122200.AAA08366@tetard.glou.eu.org>
In-Reply-To: <v02140b07ae5c5d9fa154@[208.2.87.4]> from Richard Wackerbarth at "Sep 11, 96 07:32:04 am"

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Richard Wackerbarth écrit / writes:

> My attempts to "verify" that -current is buildable have led me to observe
> that the precise concern that I previously expressed is a reality.

	Possibly along your concept, yes. 

> There are individuals who are making fundamental changes to the structure
> of the Makefiles which are not coompatible with the changes that I am
> making. I cannot possibly create a working system to hand to you if I am
> having to shoot at such a moving target.

	What about creating a working prototype  for your system based, say
	on 2.1.5, and  present it to the  core team.  Since this is already
	not an easy task, accomplishing it would buy you several things: 

	1) Credit in the eyes of the core team.  
	   If you get this working, you will indeed impress many people out
	   there.  

	2) With 1),  you will most probably get  support from the core team
	   for further development, i.e.: 

	   2a) Hopefully committers and  others  will see the benefit   and
	   will make an effort to slow down the "moving target"

	   2b) Even better, some might offer to integrate your efforts back
	   into -current, if it's so valuable. 


> That is why I feel that it is NECESSARY to have some planning rather than
> the present anarchy. Why do you allow some individuals the right to do
> things which become direct roadblocks to other efforts?

	Who is   'you', and  in what   way  can 'he/they'  allow/not  allow
	individuals  some 'right', a concept which   I believe doesn't (and
	can't) exist in the FreeBSD project ? 

	I think it has  been said many times  by different people that what
	you  ask for implies an infrastructure  which is *not*  that of the
	FreeBSD project.  People here are working:

	- because it's fun ;
	- because it's useful ;
	- because it's fun 

	I.e.: if  it becomes a  pain in  the  *ss to them,  as  in too many
	constraints, etc..., then they will stop contributing or come close
	to it,  which  I  think  has  almost happened   to some   core team
	members. 

	Were  this Microsoft, your  'team partners' would be waiting and/or
	cooperating  in the  way   you expect, because  the   boss  or some
	microBill *told* them to.

> If we cannot create an atmosphere wherein there is coordination as to the
> direction of changes, I cannot contribute in this area.

	I would be tempted to say : "Tough luck" 

	You've been given MANY hints by many different  people about how to
	do it.   It may be  that they are  all wrong an you're  right about
	doing it, but  the fact is:  'they' have it  working this way, they
	most probably have some idea which way to proceed.

> Frankly, it still appears to me that you have a double standard and, with
> respect to the FreeBSD project, intend to prevent me from accomplishing
> anything of significance.

	Again, who is 'you' ?  Jordan ?  I doubt  Jordan has enough time to
	spare to setup machiavelic schemes to shortfuse your plans. 

> I cannot get you to implement suggested improvements which are completely
> defined and the code for them exists. Neither can I make improvements to

	Hrmm, what code ? 

> the make system because the incremental steps are of no value to those who
> do not understand the bigger picture. Nor can I "demonstrate" the finished

	Then draw the whole picture and push the paper under the door. 

> product because I have to shoot at a moving target and will never be able
> to catch up.

	That I suggested a solution  to.  Short of implementing job control
	on  humans (Terry probably   has some  outline  for  this  :-)  and
	suspending them, I don't see another.

> HOW CAN I contribute?

	By contributing ? :-) 


								-- Phil

-- 
-[ Philippe Regnauld / regnauld@eu.org / +55.4N +11.3E @ Sol3 / +45 31241690 ]-
-[ "To kårve or nøt to kårve, that is the qvestion..."          -- My sister ]-



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