Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2022 17:26:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Dale Scott <dalescott@shaw.ca> To: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org> Cc: questions <questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Using a FreeBSD desktop was somehting about dog food Message-ID: <1748964407.22740611.1648682787648.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca> In-Reply-To: <20220330203728.830a79165bfc560a34de70e7@sohara.org> References: <38b7f44-6d54-fec6-c1f0-d3609d301687@safeport.com> <20220328213101.b4e8a7c447964ba025d30883@sohara.org> <20220328173414.0572dd85@bigus.dream-tech.com> <20220329071850.bca73cd201ca6d5d957c532d@sohara.org> <20220329233846.22526db6@bigus.dream-tech.com> <20220330081719.00abd669621d98dd178ab8a3@sohara.org> <20220330115445.16cb798e@bigus.dream-tech.com> <20220330203728.830a79165bfc560a34de70e7@sohara.org>
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+1 nicely worded. --- Dale Scott www.dalescott.net https://ca.linkedin.com/in/dalescott ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" <steve@sohara.org> > To: "Dave Hayes" <dave@jetcafe.org> > Cc: "questions" <questions@freebsd.org> > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2022 1:37:28 PM > Subject: Re: Using a FreeBSD desktop was somehting about dog food > On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 11:54:45 -0700 > Dave Hayes <dave@jetcafe.org> wrote: > >> Mostly, my intent in the initial response (in a fora where my responses >> are met with the same old assumptions) was to point out the irony in >> seeing topics pass by FreeBSD's forums wanting more people to use >> FreeBSD, but then seeing topics wanting them to shut up and take what >> they are given or be seen as rude. It is hard to believe that this ironic >> conundrum, which has looped for easily 20 years, is not seen clearly, but > > That's because it is not an ironic conundrum but a complete > misunderstanding of what the FreeBSD project members are likely to want. > >> that is apparently the case. If you want more users, you would need to be > > They don't want more users who contribute nothing to the project. > These are the price of finding what they do want or something like that. > >> nicer to them and not call them rude for wanting their desktop to work. >> If you want less users, you tell them to shut up and take what they are >> given and if you are consistent in this then you refrain from complaining >> about mindshare. > > They want more developers and contributors - people who write code, > people who write actionable bug reports, people who write documentation, > people who organise events, people who write concrete achievable > proposals, people who keep ports up to date, people who answer questions in > mailing lists ... > > The message isn't "Take what you're given" it's "If you want more > then pitch in and make it happen - but first make sure that the rest of the > project wants it too" - after all that's exactly what they did, why should > they expect less of anyone else ? > > Oh and finally - you talk about desktops. There are no desktops in > FreeBSD, there are no GUI applications in FreeBSD and there is no GUI in > FreeBSD these are *all* third party applications that run on FreeBSD > courtesy of the folks who look after their ports to FreeBSD. > > Complaints about them to the FreeBSD project are simply > misdirected, try instead to engage with the relevant port maintainer (or in > the case of the larger projects team) and learn something of their trials > and tribulations dealing with the upstream developers whose goals may not > include FreeBSD, or engage directly with those upstream developers. > > -- > Steve O'Hara-Smith > Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
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