Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 10:54:43 -0700 From: Devin Teske <dteske@FreeBSD.org> To: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: Devin Teske <dteske@FreeBSD.org>, Kyle Evans <kevans@freebsd.org>, src-committers <src-committers@freebsd.org>, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, svn-src-head@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r334939 - head/stand/lua Message-ID: <344AA709-2DF7-405C-AB4D-4F0978834EA1@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfrtK_Cn1N2RE=f5DS_UNLq6C493LUNwQoHvYX06noVZxg@mail.gmail.com> References: <201806110132.w5B1WI5d094546@repo.freebsd.org> <E6FA26B8-63CF-4927-AE20-644D985BACD8@freebsd.org> <CANCZdfrtK_Cn1N2RE=f5DS_UNLq6C493LUNwQoHvYX06noVZxg@mail.gmail.com>
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> On Jun 11, 2018, at 7:07 AM, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Devin Teske <dteske@freebsd.org = <mailto:dteske@freebsd.org>> wrote: >=20 >=20 > > On Jun 10, 2018, at 6:32 PM, Kyle Evans <kevans@FreeBSD.org> wrote: > >=20 > > Author: kevans > > Date: Mon Jun 11 01:32:18 2018 > > New Revision: 334939 > > URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/334939 = <https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/334939>; > >=20 > > Log: > > lualoader: Allow brand-*.lua for adding new brands > >=20 > > dteske@, I believe, had originally pointed out that lualoader = failed to > > allow logo-*.lua for new logos to be added. When correcting this = mistake, I > > failed to do the same for brands. > >=20 >=20 > You=E2=80=99re doing an amazing job, Kyle. >=20 > I continually see nothing but genuine effort toward feature parity = which makes me think one day I can pass the reigns. >=20 > Yeah, I will always love Forth. It will always hold a special place in = my heart as that whacky language that simultaneously exudes great power = while also having the image ability to induce vomiting =F0=9F=A4=AE by = the uninitiated. >=20 > However, all that being said, I=E2=80=99d actually like to keep the = Ficl boot stuff as an option through to 14.0 and here is why ... >=20 > Last year we were looking to update from ficl3 to ficl4. That may not = sound too exciting to most folks, but most folks don=E2=80=99t know the = power that ficl4 brings =E2=80=94 like the capability to use full = networking in the loader! Can lua do that? How cool would it be to be = able to communicate with the network from the loader before the kernel = is even loaded into memory? I had a few hair-brained schemes left for = Forth which might be exciting, lol >=20 > The current boot loader can already communicate via NFS or TFTP today. = Adding http would be easy, https would be harder due to crypto being = huge and space being small (though bear ssl might be small enough). >=20 > The last articulated plan in arch@ was that LUA will be default in 12, = and we plan to remove FORTH in 13. Last time I said it there in = February, there was only email agreeing that I could find. This matches = the in-person consensus poll I took at BSDcan as well. I think it would = take a very extraordinary set circumstance and severe problems with LUA = to change those plans. >=20 At BSD Can there was the boot working group where we discussed that an = FCP would be required to decide this. I raised my desires that I would like to be able to flip a knob in 13 = and reboot between Ficl and Lua, back and forth. Give people a choice until we have done a "shake-out" through an entire = major version. An honest-to-goodness procession would be, in my mind: 13: Has both; both are installed. End-user can boot back and forth = between the two Problems that arise in one or the other are non-critical because there = is always an "out" by running the other. 14: Has both but both are not installed. The installer media doesn't = even have it. You can't install the Forth booth stuff unless you twist a = knob in buildworld, optionally going down the path of generating release = media which has the Forth boot stuff. 15. It's removed from tree. You can't build Forth boot. Lua only. No = looking back, no way to build it with Forth, to get Ficl you need to go = to ports. A Ficl with FreeBSD boot words no longer exists and is no = longer maintained. All of bhyve userboot also therefore uses Lua. --=20 Devin=
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