Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2024 16:22:47 -0700 From: Alan Somers <asomers@freebsd.org> To: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: Aleksandr Fedorov <wigneddoom@yandex.ru>, FreeBSD Hackers <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>, Scott Long <scottl@freebsd.org>, "meka@tilda.center" <meka@tilda.center> Subject: Re: The Case for Rust (in the base system) Message-ID: <CAOtMX2jV%2B=-jYLxSbyPVhxX_Ce10JRZ5BXPr2bzDK3WoJ2--mw@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfpqWgvV_RCvVO_pvTrmajQFspW%2BQ9TM_Ok3JrXZAfeAfA@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAOtMX2hAUiWdGPtpaCJLPZB%2Bj2yzNw5DSjUmkwTi%2B%2BmyemehCA@mail.gmail.com> <1673801705774097@mail.yandex.ru> <CANCZdfpqWgvV_RCvVO_pvTrmajQFspW%2BQ9TM_Ok3JrXZAfeAfA@mail.gmail.com>
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On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 3:31=E2=80=AFPM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote: > > > > On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 11:45=E2=80=AFAM Aleksandr Fedorov <wigneddoom@ya= ndex.ru> wrote: >> >> What about external dependencies? >> >> https://github.com/Axcient/freebsd-nfs-exporter/blob/master/Cargo.toml#L= 19 >> https://github.com/asomers/gstat-rs/blob/master/gstat/src/main.rs#L20 >> >> Is there any plan for which crates we should take into the base system? >> >> We have had C++ in base for many years, but I don=E2=80=99t see any good= libraries for CLI, logging, JSON, etc. >> >> https://doc.rust-lang.org/rustc/platform-support.html#tier-1-with-host-t= ools >> >> Where is the support for Freebsd as a primary platform? ARM, RISC-V, Pow= er? Should we rewrite devd? >> >> I think we need to start by providing official repositories (e.g git.Fre= eBSD.org/rust.git or git.FreeBSD.org/go.git) >> for different languages that include stable bindings to the system API: >> - sysctl >> - libgeom >> - libifconfig >> - netgraph >> - jail >> - etc. >> >> So that it=E2=80=99s not just some anonymous on crates.io that represent= s these bindings, but our community. >> Officially, with support for a stable ABI for releases, security patches= , etc. >> >> After this, it will be possible to think about which components to inclu= de in the base system. >> >> I would be glad to see a more modern language than C in the database, bu= t I=E2=80=99m afraid that it will be like with C++, >> that we will get a couple of daemons and utilities and that=E2=80=99s al= l. > > > These are all good questions that need good answers, though necessarily t= o get started. > > But the other question that occured to me after my last posting was "What= about build integration?" > How much of the rust automation do we take in vs how much do we drive fro= m a future bsd.rust.mk. > I can sketch out bsd.rust.mk (to pick an arbitrary name, we'd likely need= one for what we traditionally > think of as libraries (which may or may not map 1:1 onto crates: we could= have c callable libraries > written in rust in the future, for example) and one for binaries. Initia= lly, though, if we go with the > 'make rust tests possible' then we'd likely need the appropriate packages= installed for whatever > dependencies we'd have in the tests. This would give us a taste for what = we'd need to do for > base, I'd think. Once we had that notion, I can easily see there needing = to be some sort of > rust bindings for ATF/kyua as one of the first libraries / crates that wo= uld test that aspect of > the build system. That all would be up to the people writing the tests in= rust, I'd imagine. > > While I could jot out the basics of this integration (so one could just a= dd the rust > tools to a subdir or subdirs, include the bsd.rust.mk or whatever and the= n it would build > if rust is enabled, and would emit a warning it was skipped because rust = was disabled). > We'd find out if this is workable or not and iterate from there. But that= would also require > active participation from the rust advocates to make it a reality: I can = put together the > build infrastructure for the disabled case, but likely can't on my own do= the rust enabled > case. I'd be happy to work with someone to do that, but I'm not going to = be able to do > that myself: my need for rust is slight, my knowledge of rust is weak, et= c. Working with > someone (or ideally several someones), though it could become reality. So= please contact > me if you'd like to work on this. That sounds like a reasonable approach. But what would be the first tool or test suite to write in Rust? The fusefs tests are now 16 kSLOC and I don't fancy rewriting them. The tests that I DO want to write are those that involve fsx-rs. But those won't actually need bsd.rust.mk, because they'll just be short sh scripts that invoke a tool from ports. I just need a ports committer to approve https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D276005 . ATM I don't have a ready project to be imp's guinea pig. -Alan
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