Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 08:13:10 -0600 From: "Jeremy Messenger" <mezz7@cox.net> To: supraexpress@globaleyes.net Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The case for FreeBSD Message-ID: <opslvtr8ng9aq2h7@mezz.mezzweb.com> In-Reply-To: <20050208034855.D211E43D45@mx1.FreeBSD.org> References: <20050208034855.D211E43D45@mx1.FreeBSD.org>
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Had to do the top post.... You can read Scott Long's wishlist, which it included about the installer. http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2004-December/043809.html Cheers, Mezz On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 21:48:48 -0600 (CST), <supraexpress@globaleyes.net> wrote: > One of the main "stumbling blocks" to using FreeBSD is the installation > process. I have had "lots of fun" (not!) with NetBSD's > line-mode/shell-script > "installer" and confusing companion installation instructions, in the > past; I > only tried OpenBSD once and don't remember anything about its > installation > process, but I seem to recall that it was similar to NetBSD's; FreeBSD's > 'DOS-like menu' system is a travisty and IS PROBABLY THE ONE THING THAT > TURNS > OFF MORE PROSPECTIVE FBSD USERS THAN ANYTHING ELSE - I know - I have > heard! > > Besides, it is REALLY EASY to get lost in the FBSD installer "menu > system", > and not that hard to get caught in a "control loop"; this is not to say > that > the current FBSD installer is a piece of junk - I give kudos to its > developers, but IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON, and this is the ONE thing that > gets > compared to with Linux "installers" as well as Winchoke, probably more > than > anything else, so if FreeBSD is going to be more appealing to "the > masses", > it needs a completely new installation process (note: I don't really care > for Solaris' "wizard process" - though it is not TOO bad, and I am not > trying to advocate a "wizard process" that mirrors others). > > I offer the following suggestions for cogitation and realize that some > of MY choices may not be "the best", but here goes anyhow: > > a) redesign the "installer" as a graphical menu system with pull-down > options, organized as a linear heirarchy where there is NO possibility > of getting lost or of winding up in a "control loop", and the > progression > is clearly visible; real graphical images of major processes/steps and > "systems/major applications" should be provided; THIS installer should > begin with THREE, and only THREE options: "user workstation", > "server", or "(expert) choice of workstation/server setups" > > > b) design an "installation wizard", in line with contemporary systems, > that does nothing but install a "canned workstation environment" > based on > OpenOffice plus Gnome (or KDE) - that's IT - NOTHING ELSE; Make sure > that a more modern graphical menu is used where sample images of Gnome > (or KDE) are presented, and do NOT install the entire Gnome (or KDE) > "suite"; THIS will appeal to the MILLIONS who have been brainwashed by > Redmond (or Apple?) into believing that there is only ONE "computing > environment" of any use or interest, AND IT WILL GIVE THEM WHAT THEY > WANT, even if it IS FreeBSD; this would be like a pseudo-Mac-X > (whatever); > this will also appeal to those who don't really care about Unix or > FreeBSD as a "server", but really want a "desktop environment" > a basic client-only, outbound-only-allowing firewall MUST BE > installed and activated (which will require some simple choices about > DHCP or assigned, static IP addreses); "ports" could be included as > an option, but would be better left to the "expert" wizard > > > c) design an "installation wizard" that installs a "server system with NO > desktop installation" which provides some "canned" server "types" > (such as > "mail server", "web server", ...) that choose the newest versions of > server applications (such as Apache2 versus Apache1; PHP5 versus PHP4) > as the "defaults", and pull-down menus for changing versions (such as > one pull-down for PHP that lists all of the available PHP "main" > packages, and possibly another pull-down that lists all of the > available > PHP "sub-packages"), or altering the application "mix" > > > d) design an "installation menu system" which provides ALL of the choices > for ALL of the available functions and services in a well ordered, > graphical, linear, hierarchy with sample images/snapshots and > pull-down > menus to make choices easier to make, without having to go into and > out > of many levels as the current installer does > > > It would probably help if a "special design team" (project) were created > for > this, with calls to anyone/everyone to join in, unless - of course - that > there just so happens to be a group of talented people who WANT to do > all of > this on their own ;) > > > If some truly talented and adventurous people were to look at the > installation > process as an adventure in graphical layers where mousing over a box or > image > would open up a new sub-layer (to the side, or even BETTER, to wherever > the > user places their mouse or clicks on the background, or shouts at the > monitor > (we REALLY need to get some of the Hitchhiker's Guide into this > process!), > where small graphical images of options or related packages could be > displayed > so that the "installer" acted like a well designed "flowing image overlay > system", THEN the FreeBSD installation process would be dynamite - > literally! > > There are "circular menus" (ala one Firebird extension), layered > pie-chart > diagrams of the filesystem with size information (such as KDE's > "filelight") > where mousing over one of the concentric circles pops up an "info box", > while > clicking on one of them traverses down the filesystem path and creates a > new > set of concentric circles of lower level directories, and the > exhilarating > 3D-Desktop as examples of unique, "futuristic", artistic, free flowing > graphical "systems" that could lead to interesting ideas for the above > mentioned "graphical installation system". > > Granted, there are MANY, MANY issues to be worked out, and some of these > suggestions will have to be modified - of course. There might even need > to > be a two-tiered system where the first tier could be a basic graphical > system that doesn't need special graphics cards to perform, and the > second > tier that could install X, or something close enough, and then provide > the > full blown "graphical installation" system. If there are enough drivers > available to the "installation system" to determine enough about a system > "monitor", then hopefully this could be an automated facility (eg; > install > a minimal X-system with just enough to do the necessary graphics, and > later > install the entire X-system where needed). > > OK - let the "flame wars" begin. Whatever comes out of this, the FreeBSD > "installer" badly needs a facelift. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- mezz7@cox.net - mezz@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD GNOME Team http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome/ - gnome@FreeBSD.org
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