Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 11:40:35 -0400 From: Bill Moran <wmoran@iowna.com> To: Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org> Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [OT] Spam from Windriver - how should I react? Message-ID: <3B34B873.2E044814@iowna.com> References: <15155.53722.908690.505545@guru.mired.org> <3B33E17D.F1F715BE@iowna.com> <15155.59329.751227.991311@guru.mired.org> <3B3428D8.6FD65A0C@iowna.com> <15156.43687.528839.758090@guru.mired.org>
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Mike Meyer wrote: > Bill Moran <wmoran@iowna.com> types: > > It _is_ clearly bulk because I haven't ordered anything from FreeBSDMall > > since January, thus they must have sent this mail out to all their > > customers (not just the ones with outstanding orders that may have been > > delayed) > > I don't think it's bulk at all, because "bulk" means "send it to every > address you can." In the snail mail world, bulk mail is sent to every > address in a zip code (*). In the email world, you get lists of 10s of > millions of addresses, with on indication whatsoever that the > recipient has any interest in the subject at question. This mail was > sent to a specific list of people known to be or have been interested > in FreeBSD. These two things are qualitatively different, even if they > may not be quantitatively different. First off, I think we're into the same discussion we had on the definition of spam. Bulk mail does not HAVE to be done in the manner you described. For example: I've done work for a roofing company that, when things get slow in the office, sends out their admin staff to drive around and write down the addresses of houses with slate roofs (they only do slate roofing, obviously) They simply drive around casually and when they see a house with a slate roof, they write down the address. Back at the office, these addresses are added to their mailing datbase (along with previous customers). This constitutes a huge list of addresses that they mail fliers to on a regular basis. It constitutes thousands of pieces per week, and the Post Office sure as heck calls it "bulk mail" (requiring them to follow bulk mail procedures and have the fliers pre-sorted by zip code, and prepackaged in special bulk-mail boxes) Now, in the snail mail world, this is a totally acceptable method of bulk-mailing, and it's definately more targeted than simply going by zip code statistics. (you're totally right about that, I've seen other companies use such statistics) However, imagine that you could port-scan a computer and get a person's email address off it. Then you could port-scan a large number of internet computer, and send email advertising only to the ones using FreeBSD. That would still be spam. And it's only a short breath away to do what Wind River did and take a list of previous customers. > > > I don't recall ever seeing any kind of privacy policy for email > > > addresses from BSDi. It may be there, and if Wind River violated it, > > > they are out of line. They should have printed their press release and > > > thrown it in with the subscriptions to get me to pay for the shipping. > > Here I'll stand my ground. > > You shouldn't have to have a g*d damned legalise document to establish > > what can and can not be done everywhere you go. Some things are just a > > matter of personal integrity. I provided my email address so my order > > could be confirmed. To use that addy for anything else is a violation of > > the trust provided when the web form said "please give us your email > > address so we can provide you with an order confirmation." > > Well, if they explicitly said it wsa for order confirmation, then > you're right - that's an explicitly stated privacy policy. On the > other hand, I would say it's acceptable to send notice of problems > with the order should they occur, even though those are outside the > area you agreed to. If this mail went to FreeBSD subscribers instead > of FreeBSDMall customers, it fits in that area. Well, this is where I feel the whole thing was unprofessional. If they're so confused about ordering that they don't even know who's got an outstanding order and who doesn't, that's VERY unprofessional management. So perhaps the lack of professionalism started in the record keeping area, and it became visible in this email. Personally, I don't think it was a good business move, but (as I've already mentioned) I think the intention was far better than most companies. Had it been my decision, 2 things would have been different. 1) It would have been a much shorter and to the point. 2) It would have come from FreeBSDMall, not Wind River. -Bill -- If a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, then what can I get for two hands in the bush? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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