Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2023 16:17:34 -0500 From: Jake Freeland <jake@technologyfriends.net> To: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: Alexey Dokuchaev <danfe@freebsd.org>, Warner Losh <imp@freebsd.org>, src-committers@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org Subject: Re: git: af93fea71038 - main - timerfd: Move implementation from linux compat to sys/kern Message-ID: <CAOgZAGYykL1j1%2BUhcb68RYj1y93yN8gd90R9evjZrRRX_gkUyA@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAOgZAGa7%2BOGmPsAu=OyaMvva2Bw9CLPJLPucvnFMyzXXDr3iag@mail.gmail.com> References: <202308242029.37OKTmVs091755@gitrepo.freebsd.org> <ZOyQQgOAap9L7OT1@FreeBSD.org> <CANCZdfqqahUmXxh6sGiPgiGUJCAqiyXjV-x8XT3Nku7007L7fw@mail.gmail.com> <CAOgZAGa7%2BOGmPsAu=OyaMvva2Bw9CLPJLPucvnFMyzXXDr3iag@mail.gmail.com>
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[-- Attachment #1 --] On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 4:12 PM Jake Freeland <jake@technologyfriends.net> wrote: > On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 11:19 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote: > >> Added cc for Jake >> >> On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 6:17 AM Alexey Dokuchaev <danfe@freebsd.org> >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 08:29:48PM +0000, Warner Losh wrote: >>> > commit af93fea710385b2b11f0cabd377e7ed6f3d97c34 >>> > >>> > timerfd: Move implementation from linux compat to sys/kern >>> > >>> > Move the timerfd impelemntation from linux compat code to sys/kern. >>> >>> Could you quickly summarize why we need these linuxish bits in FreeBSD? >>> We've lived for years without it. Had expected to find the rationale >>> in DR but alas. :( Thanks, >>> >> > The amount of software designed exclusively for Linux grows every day. > Support for FreeBSD is almost always done on behalf of FreeBSD > contributors, not the program developers. > > I do not want to play the cat-and-mouse game of constantly updating shims > so we can support Linux software. I would rather take the sensible* parts > of Linux and integrate them into core FreeBSD. > > My goal is not to turn FreeBSD into Linux, but rather to stay relevant in > an age where most younger developers don't even know what BSD is. We should > spend more resources on Linux program support, so younger audiences can use > their Discord web apps natively on FreeBSD. > Sorry, this should say "Discord desktop apps", not "web apps". Jake Freeland > > Absorbing "linuxish" bits is controversial and I think that is a tragedy. > In my eyes, having "linuxish" features is one of the best ways to ease the > jump between Linux and FreeBSD, and minimize the maintenance needed for > FreeBSD support. > > * > https://ariadne.space/2021/06/06/actually-bsd-kqueue-is-a-mountain-of-technical-debt/ > > Jake Freeland > > >> I'll let Jake answer this and >> >> > glibc misc/tst-timerfd test fails now under Linux emulation >> >> I think his new review https://reviews.freebsd.org/D41600 addresses this >> issue maybe >> >> Warner >> > [-- Attachment #2 --] <div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 4:12 PM Jake Freeland <<a href="mailto:jake@technologyfriends.net">jake@technologyfriends.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 11:19 AM Warner Losh <<a href="mailto:imp@bsdimp.com" target="_blank">imp@bsdimp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Added cc for Jake</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 6:17 AM Alexey Dokuchaev <<a href="mailto:danfe@freebsd.org" target="_blank">danfe@freebsd.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 08:29:48PM +0000, Warner Losh wrote:<br> > commit af93fea710385b2b11f0cabd377e7ed6f3d97c34<br> > <br> > timerfd: Move implementation from linux compat to sys/kern<br> > <br> > Move the timerfd impelemntation from linux compat code to sys/kern.<br> <br> Could you quickly summarize why we need these linuxish bits in FreeBSD?<br> We've lived for years without it. Had expected to find the rationale<br> in DR but alas. :( Thanks,<br></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div>The amount of software designed exclusively for Linux grows every day. Support for FreeBSD is almost always done on behalf of FreeBSD contributors, not the program developers.</div><div><br></div><div>I do not want to play the cat-and-mouse game of constantly updating shims so we can support Linux software. I would rather take the sensible* parts of Linux and integrate them into core FreeBSD.</div><div><br></div><div>My goal is not to turn FreeBSD into Linux, but rather to stay relevant in an age where most younger developers don't even know what BSD is. We should spend more resources on Linux program support, so younger audiences can use their Discord web apps natively on FreeBSD.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sorry, this should say "Discord desktop apps", not "web apps".</div><div><br></div><div>Jake Freeland</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div><br></div><div>Absorbing "linuxish" bits is controversial and I think that is a tragedy. In my eyes, having "linuxish" features is one of the best ways to ease the jump between Linux and FreeBSD, and minimize the maintenance needed for FreeBSD support.</div><div><br></div><div>* <a href="https://ariadne.space/2021/06/06/actually-bsd-kqueue-is-a-mountain-of-technical-debt/" target="_blank">https://ariadne.space/2021/06/06/actually-bsd-kqueue-is-a-mountain-of-technical-debt/</a></div></div><div> </div><div>Jake Freeland</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I'll let Jake answer this and</div><div><br></div><div>> glibc misc/tst-timerfd test fails now under Linux emulation<div></div><br></div><div>I think his new review <a href="https://reviews.freebsd.org/D41600" target="_blank">https://reviews.freebsd.org/D41600</a>; addresses this issue maybe</div><div><br></div><div>Warner</div></div></div> </blockquote></div></div> </blockquote></div></div>
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