Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 19:00:27 +0000 From: twilight <pipfstarrd@openmailbox.org> To: Allen <bsd_atog@comcast.net>, "freebsd-chat@freebsd.org" <freebsd-chat@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: What Larry McVoy (bitkeeper) got wrong .... Message-ID: <264e186a-68c9-ee38-5137-03dfee8d70a8@openmailbox.org> In-Reply-To: <20160724224759.1b93545b@KoggyBSD.org> References: <44e4450e-8dbb-f401-bd5c-df503f7a4ef8@FreeBSD.org> <868twsqn1a.fsf@desk.des.no> <20160724003115.GY78278@eureka.lemis.com> <44ceaa97-028e-37ca-2a66-2e211bc5d3db@fastmail.com> <dc015b3f-b6a5-309e-50b5-7ea906d9a8d8@openmailbox.org> <ABCF861D769E2944B1378AA04DFC46014425ED27@HERMES.scc.shoalhaven.nsw.gov.au> <20160724224759.1b93545b@KoggyBSD.org>
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Wow, that's an amazing story. I've got much shorter (so as my life is) story: I've started out as a Windows user, as many of us. My first operating system was Windows 2000, the next system I used for a long time was Windows XP. When I was at the sixth grade I've found a book for computer newbies in my school library. It was very poorly written, it had lots of instructions like: "to start the volume control, pull the mouse cursor over the Start button in the bottom left corner. Then press the left button. Pull the cursor over the "All Programs" item and wait. Then...". But there was one good chapter. About hackers. About *real* hackers. It was the first time I've found out that such people exist, the book said that hackers "literally are the people upon whom internet is built". I was like "wow, I want to be the same". The book recommended to start with studying PHP, Perl, C and Lisp. I've searched in my home library and found a book about C (M. White, S. Prata, D. Marting C for beginners). It had funny illustrations and simple-given materials. After reading it I thought about myself as of a mega-hacker who knows more then anybody else. So, I started to write a Rubics cube assembler in C that was using exhaustive search. And, as I was amused with the beautiful recursion, no functions were returning, everything was called recursively. Literally. In the switch input-analyzer, in the "pick a move, test and check if assembled" cycle. Well, the program managed to solve problems made by up to 4 moves from the completed position. On the 5-move depth it always failed with SEGFAULT. I didn't know what that meant. I didn't know about asm and stack overflow at that moment. So, I didn't manage to complete it. I've thought about *nix as superior system since I've read that book, but I didn't get any chance to install anything due to my weak system and the lack of knowledge. My first systems were P-III, 512 MiB, 18 GiB, TNT Riva; then an old Toshiba laptop (Intel Celeron 1.8 GhZ, 512 MiB, 40 GiB); then an 2004 Acer laptop (Amd Turion x64, 512 MiB, 80 GiB). On the last one I've attempted to install Ubuntu (when it still used Gnome 2), but I've struggled with lots of lags, and, as, I didn't have any hacker friends who could tell me that there are much more lightweight distributions and help to get the basics, I've moved back to Windows XP (but I was 100% sure, that I'll install Linux as soon as I could get more powerful computer to work with it). So, about 5 years ago I've purchased a MSi laptop with Nvidia 530m, Intel Core i3-3110m, 4096 MiB, 500 Gb and the first thing I've installed there (well, not the first, I've played a little with some popular games, but only for about 2 weeks to find out how shitty they are) was Ubuntu Linux. I didn't know anything about terminal, but I knew that working in the term was a superior way to use my computer. So, I've tried to program in vim(1) and compile in term with gcc. I've struggled a lot :D. Not because vim was beeping and corrupting everything, just, unusual interface, lack of any knowledge (I even didn't knew about man(1) pages, lol). Well, I've made my way through setting the wallpaper with cli commands, then reading about core utils, learning to ask questions, searching the web and reading man pages. That boosted my programming studying a lot. I've got used to vim and fell in love with it's editing paradigm, key combinations, hands-on-keyboard editing style. I wanted to know about everything (although I knew that it was impossible). I tried graphics (SDL, OpenGL, shaders a little bit), networking (programming), protocols, scripting, system calls, asm programming, GUI, system administration (simple), web (html, js, css), python as backend, C, of course. I tried to understand how processor works, how that bunch of electrons help me to run DooM. Also I tried to learn C++, well, OOP is not hard (as far as i know it), but C++ is really ugly. The overbloated standard, multiple ways to do the same, sucking in the standard every nice features pushed me away from C++ back to the only and holy C. After getting a little bit comfortable with Ubuntu, I've started distrohopping: I've tried Fedora, openSUSE, Mint, flavors of Ubuntu... Then I've read about Arch Linux. I've looked at it and thought "wow, that's cool". I've struggled with the first installation, as I've needed to do everything by hands. But, after few reinstallations, reading the arch wiki I've finally got to fell myself comfortable in the terminal. All the time I were using Linux I knew about *BSD, but I always thought "ha ha lol the are doing the second Linux, who would ever need that?", and with a bunch of bad people I was always waiting the time when *BSD will finally be buried for ever. But about 1 year ago I changed my mind and thought "why not try it?". I can't tell for sure what helped me to do that, maybe the fun and positive OpenBSD release songs and artwork or the articles about the "true UNIX, unlike Linux", but, anyway, I've attempted to install FreeBSD. At that moment I've had a Dell Inspiron 3135 as my personal laptop and Lenovo G510 as a server. Well, the installation amused me with it's simplicity, but then I've had to build for 8 hours from ports (the X and some utils I use). And guess what? The AMD 8xxx series were not supported at that moment (well, they aren't supported till now, that makes me sad, a little, not to good for a system I'd like to see much more wide spreaded). So on Inspiron 3135 FreeBSD failed to launch in a X session. But Lenovo was handled normally, so I were able to try out FreeBSD and I liked it. After about 8 months of my first attempt I've accidentally spilled some water over the keyboard, so I changed my laptop to a used ThinkPad X200. FreeBSD ran like a charm on it. Well, here are still some problems I want to look deeper in, but, at least, I'm able to do all the usual tasks as the graphics and sound are working (of course, I mostly use my laptop for programming and studying, but, without music and ability to view multimedia that is a little bit sad, so, it was important). The only sad thing is that *BSD is actually dying. Linux is getting literally everywhere, spoiling standards with linuxisms and accepting blobs (that are still Linux-specific, so no hardware support even with blobs and no open specs also). So, losing contributors, that are going to more popular projects, lacking the hardware support and better to not talk about the dead FreeBSD media-advertising will eventually lead to a, at first, marginal haiku-like community and death of a bunch of little flavors (DragonFly BSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD), and, then, to the end of life of the system. So sad, that the money and legacy, not the efficiency and power make the modern IT world. On 25.07.2016 02:47, Allen wrote: > On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 07:22:18 +0000 > Andrew Perry <perrya@shoalhaven.nsw.gov.au> wrote: > >> funny, I actually unsubscribed from chat (and others) because I was >> getting too much traffic. At the time I couldn't deal with it (long >> story, divorce and messy real life stuff). I was surprised when I >> recently resubscribed and didn't get any messages. I thought I'd >> stuffed up. > > Personally I prefer the FreeBSD-Chat Mailing List over IRC, but that's > just simply my own personal preference. I'v been using this list on > and off for a very long time, but eventually my situation would after a > while change to where I had no time for Mailing Lists, but I'm glad I'm > back on here. > > It does help that I'm finally using FreeBSD as my main Desktop now > though. ;) > > I've been using FreeBSD on and off since 4.0-RELEASE. I actually still > remember wayyyyy back then; I had only owned a Computer for like a year > or so at the time, and I was lucky enough to have some friends that > were Hackers. > > I thought that was amazing and I liked the idea that I could do things > with a Computer that could eventually lead to a career, and the fact > that I enjoyed doing it helped a lot too lol. > > I was talking with my at the time best friend, and he had been using > Computers for years, and I was just starting out, and didn't know much > of anything. > > I had a crappy PC with Windows 95 on it, and one night, I was kinda > drunk, and I accidentally destroyed it lol. I was working at the time, > so I did have a pay check coming in even though I still lived with my > Mom, and my main outgoing expense at that time, was my Horror Movie > Collection, and my CD Collection lol. So I went the very next day to > Best Buy, and picked out a new Computer. > > It was early 2,000 and it was the first time I had ever purchased a > Computer for myself, and I ended up buying an HP Pavilion Computer, and > it came with Windows 98 SE, 128 MBs of RAM, and a very odd 42.9 GB HD. > > It was only 42.9 GBs on Windows though; On Linux it was 43 GBs. I still > don't think I've ever seen another HD that was THAT size lol. > > But anyway, I was starting to learn that you could run an Operating > System on your Computer that wasn't Windows. Remember I'm just starting > out at this point and knew nothing. > > Anyway, I asked some friends of mine online what they used, and a > friend of mine said he ran Linux. I knew nothing about Linux, so I > looked it up, and starting reading. > > That was when I first heard about Unix, and BSD, and so on. My at the > time best friend was better with Computers than I was at the time, and > he LOVED Unix. > > Between my buddy saying he ran Linux and my friend saying that Unix was > a good OS for Hacking (He said it didn't get in the way, and that for > Programming, there was nothing better) so I took those as fairly strong > recommendations. > > So anyway, my friend would come over, and we would discuss Computer > stuff all day and all night long, and one day, I saw a book at the book > store I went to sometimes, called "Teach yourself Linux in 24 Hours". > > It came with a CD-ROM as well, and it had Caldera Open Linux 2.2 on it. > I bought the book, and started reading. > > Not too long after that, I still hadn't actually installed Linux on > anything yet, and my friend wanted to point out to me that Linux was > good, but it wasn't actually Unix. He made sure I knew the difference > between "Unix Like" and "Unix". Lol. > > Anyway, I was at Best Buy with my Mom, and as we're walking through the > store, I see the Computer Section coming up where the Software was. As > we're walking up, I see this thing called the "BSD Powerpak" and I'd > never seen it before. > > I had heard of FreeBSD before from my online reading, and I knew a > little about it, and I'd just never seen it before in a store. I was > actually kind of surprised. I grabbed it off the shelf and took a look > at the box, and I ended up buying it. > > It came with the book "The Complete FreeBSD, 3rd Edition" and it came > with 10 CD-ROMs; 4 FreeBSD Installation CDs, and 6 FreeBSD Tool Kit > CD-ROMs. > > When I got home, I opened it up and started reading about FreeBSD. As I > said before, I did know what FreeBSD, sort of, and I had heard of it > from reading online about Linux and Unix, and I was just really Happy > that I could find this boxed set I'd found. > > Of course, none of that could prepare me for what I was going to > experience either lol. Can you guys imagine? Someone who'd owned a > Computer for less than one year, knows almost nothing about Computers > let alone Unix, and has yet to actually install Linux, or any other OS > for that matter, and now trying to get FreeBSD up and running? > > My friend that came over all the time and talked Computers with me, > started checking out the box it came in, and he seemed pretty impressed > with it too. > > It took me a while before I managed to get FreeBSD installed; Not > because the installer was particularly hard to use or anything, I just > simply didn't have the skills. > > I'd never even installed Windows or DOS before. So I knew literally > nothing. > > After a while, with lots of practice, and lots of re-installs of > Windows 98 SE on that Computer, I started to get the hang of how to > install an OS. > > My Computer came with Re-Installation CDs instead of Windows > Installation CDs. The Tower / Case my Computer had, had a little CD-ROM > holding area on the very top of it so that you could put those CDs in > there, and then, if you ever needed them, you would just pop the first > one in, reboot, and it would allow you to wipe the Drive, and install > Windows, and everything else the Computer came with (Such as Drivers, > Programs, and things like that). > > Eventually I got really good with installing OSs, and I also had > another breakthrough; I finally got a High Speed Internet Connection! > > Before this, I had Dial Up, and nothing else, and not only that, but > the Modem my Computer came with, was a POS WinModem, and it wouldn't > even work with the copy of Windows 2,000 Professional that I'd bought. > > When I got a little better at Computers, and a little better at > Hardware, I eventually took it out, and was surprised to see that my > little WinModem, was also my Sound Card! > > I'd never seen Hardware like this before, but it was for sure weird. I > eventually had bought a new Sound Card, after installing SuSE Linux 8.1 > Professional. > > I'd bought SuSE 8.1 Professional at that same Best Buy that I had > bought the FreeBSD Powerpak at, and I could never get online with Linux. > > I'd by this time bought more versions of Linux to play with, but no > matter what, for some reason, there were two things that always > prevented me from sticking with Linux; Sound Card issues, because of > the Sound Card / WinModem combo that I just mentioned, and of course, > getting online. > > I bought a Sound Blaster! Sound Card at Best Buy, and given my limited > know how at the time, I paid for them to install it for me as well. > Once I had a REAL Sound Card, I could finally get sound in an OS that > wasn't Windows 98 SE, which meant now, all I had to do, was get online > with High Speed, and I could finally use a NIC, and use another OS. > > After a while, and saving up money, I managed to finally afford to get > a Cable Internet Connection. The day Comcast came to finally install > it, I wasn't home because I was at work, and the girl they sent to do > it, was a moron. > > When I got home, the phone call I had gotten at work, was making more > sense... My Mom called me at work, and said the girl was "Trying to > delete System Files so that the OS would re-install them"... > > I knew that didn't sound right, and sure enough, it didn't work. I got > home that night from work, and had to re-install Windows. Again. > > Finally, Comcast sent two other techs to the house to install our > connection. > > I told the guys that showed up what happened, and they were in shock. > The main guy that was there, sent his co-worker out to their van to > grab me a NIC since the girl who showed up to install before, had > thrown mine in the Trash, because "She couldn't get it working". He > said that the girl they sent, only kept her job because she was pretty, > and that she didn't really know anything about anything. > > He got a new NIC installed in my Computer, and set up the Cable Modem, > and got it working finally, and after that. I no longer had any real > reason not to use another OS. > > So I installed Partition Magic, set up some Partitions, and I got SuSE > Linux 8.1 Professional installed, and got it online, and I got sound > working. > > I had finally installed Linux and got it working on my Computer. I also > installed Windows 2,000 Professional on it, that way I could Dual Boot > between Windows and Linux. I kept Windows for games, and used Linux for > more and more. > > The first time I tried installing FreeBSD though, I still didn't > understand enough. so I stuck with Linux and Windows 2,000 Professional > for a while. One day, I wanted to get FreeBSD up and running, so I > started the installation. > > The Power Went out while I was installing. Like 40 times. Lol, it seems > like I'm full of it there, but I'm serious; It started out with my Mom, > who was using a Hair Dryer, and kept tripping the Breaker, and > eventually I got her to stop that, and then, there were multiple > outtages after that from the weather. > > Eventually, I got FreeBSD installed, and I knew nothing about it > really. I'd read the book, but I didn't know much about using it. When > I look back and think about all the time I spent like that, and doing > what I did, I can't help but laugh; I mean, I was dumb, and I've > learned a lot over these last however many years it's been, and I still > have the box for my FreeBSD Powerpak, and the book, and the CDs too. > > I'm now running FreeBSD 10.1-RELEASE, and I've already gotten my > FreeBSD 10.3-RELEASE DVD in the mail from the FreeBSD Mall. I've got so > many books now I can't even count. I also buy BSD Magazine. > > I'm glad I stuck with FreeBSD though; I Love it. It's probably my > favorite OS that I still use. > > Anyway, sorry about the length of this, but I felt that it would make > more sense if you guys had some context to go on, and some history. > > -Allen > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Cheers~ PGP key fingerprint: 07B3 2177 3E27 BF41 DC65 CC95 BDA8 88F1 E9F9 CEEF You can retrieve my public key at pgp.mit.edu.
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