Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 04:11:21 -0700 (PDT) From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami) To: jobaldwi@vt.edu Cc: motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, nclayton@lehman.com, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation Message-ID: <199906281111.EAA52379@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: <199906280427.AAA29177@smtp4.erols.com> (message from John Baldwin on Mon, 28 Jun 1999 00:27:21 -0400 (EDT)) References: <199906280427.AAA29177@smtp4.erols.com>
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* From: John Baldwin <jobaldwi@vt.edu>
* No offense, but your arguments apply to a specific case, i.e. "ja", and Nik is
* trying to setup a generic structure that will be easily extensible and
* consistent. That is why "en" is changing to "en_US.iso-8859-1" or something
* similar. We understand that it's just bit flipping to do JIS -> SJIS -> EUC,
* but please understand that Nik is proposing a system that is bigger than the
* doc/ja tree. It is the doc/ tree. Also, the end user will still have
* /usr/share/man/ja and /usr/share/doc/ja.. this is only for the CVS repository.
* Please try to see the big picture here instead of just looking at the "ja"
* stuff. Everyone else has to adjust to this change, too.
Please read the entire thread before replying to an old message.
The largest (maybe only) problem the Japanese people have is his
stated eventual goal of enforcing the <lang><_territory><.codeset>
full spec into the installation directories of all languages (as a
default). We are discussing this now since the current proposed move
is a preparation of that eventual goal.
I have already suggested that we are willing to compromise if he will
allow per-language *default* installation directories to be determined
by the users of that language, not by someone who doesn't use the
language.
===
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:11:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: nclayton@lehman.com
CC: motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp,
doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG,
freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation
From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami)
:
That said, I won't object if your eventual goal will allow a
per-language *default* in directory names. For instance, if we can
put "LANGSUBDIR ?= ja" in ja_JP.eucJP/Makefile to have all the
Japanese documents install in the "ja" subdir by default (and have
symlinks pointing to there from ja_JP.eucJP or whatever), that is fine
for me. Each language/territory can choose their own default (maybe
most of them will just want it to be the same as the repository name,
although I have a hunch that Mandarin folks will prefer "zh" or
"zh_CN" -- but don't quote me on this) that makes the most sense to
them.
*IF* some Japanese sysadmin really wants to install both eucJP and
SJIS variants of docs on their system for whatever reason, they can
override that variable and take their risk.
But if you insist on installing Japanese docs by default by
ja_JP.eucJP with the option by site overrides, we are strongly against
it. As Konno-san said, it doesn't make sense from a Japanese user's
standpoint, and it will make maintenance of other parts of the system
(ports, web pages, etc.) a nightmare.
:
===
His reply to this was to mention that the framework will allow that
but he wasn't clear whether he will allow per-language defaults to
be determined by the users of the languages.
===
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 01:42:03 +0100
From: Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk>
To: Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami <asami@FreeBSD.ORG>
Cc: nclayton@lehman.com, motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp,
jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@FreeBSD.ORG,
freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG,
freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation
:
Yes. I want to allow this flexibility. In my mind, a sysadmin is likely
to want to install the docs in to a canonical location, and then symlink
to this location from other, possibly friendlier, directory names.
As an admin myself, I'd want the canonical location to be as precise as
possible, and have the symlinks be less precise. Which is why I'd suggest
the canonical location be 'ja_JP.eucJP' (or whatever) and the symlinks be
'ja'. Other admins (e.g., you) might want this reversed, and have the
canonical directory be 'ja', and the symlinks be things like 'ja_JP.eucJP'.
I have no problem with this, and the arguments about which approach should
be the default (6 or 12 months down the line) are likely to more
entertaining than "vi vs. Emacs" :-)
:
===
The "vi vs. Emacs" reference worries me. We really do not want to
engage in religious wars -- that's exactly what happens when people
try to determine what's good for others. :)
I haven't gotten a reply to this followup of mine.
===
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 01:32:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk
CC: nclayton@lehman.com, motoyuki@snipe.rim.or.jp, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com,
kuriyama@sky.rim.or.jp, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk,
jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-tech-jp@jp.freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Resolution: FDP reorganisation
From: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi - Ports Wraith - Asami)
:
Well, as long as you let the Japanese people decide what the default's
going to be for Japanese stuff, I'm fine. :)
:
===
Nik, if you agree with this, we can end this whole thing now. I
believe that is the only point that the Japanese people won't be able
to compromise.
Satoshi
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