Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 13:16:56 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@FreeBSD.org> To: Dewayne Geraghty <dewaynegeraghty@gmail.com> Cc: Koichiro Iwao <meta@freebsd.org>, FreeBSD Ports <ports@freebsd.org>, ruby@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FLAVORS for Ruby Message-ID: <20190917111655.3x5chgmu4gsemlba@ivaldir.net> In-Reply-To: <CAGnMC6oHcYwfpForY5QFmxhrNYiMGFERYz6Jb_7ZC0FqwEb7tg@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAALwa8m3NJSckxSyrVTehx3LWxheSJXxUB=iAxr%2B1HG_2WFtfg@mail.gmail.com> <20190913090645.buutinhgh2pygb4h@icepick.vmeta.jp> <CAP7rwcjH6d7AiEL4XeRyQ-evT=dq%2BZi8WDTx-aYhye-zq2DKJw@mail.gmail.com> <20190914042738.r3hedyqtpxsxnd5e@icepick.vmeta.jp> <006FCB74-04EB-4A82-A800-6C7CA273E749@adamw.org> <20190916143929.z6vnzoqjme6vw2ey@icepick.vmeta.jp> <CAP7rwci6jME-Ef%2BOkjKWD7mYdnNhobA-9Va5YKmW_6xzcuNj_w@mail.gmail.com> <20190916161650.4ofb2o27tfxif57e@icepick.vmeta.jp> <20190917064039.7qhnw3lds2zaxdl5@atuin.in.mat.cc> <CAGnMC6oHcYwfpForY5QFmxhrNYiMGFERYz6Jb_7ZC0FqwEb7tg@mail.gmail.com>
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--ngaaipn67ky2z2pc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 05:29:06PM +1000, Dewayne Geraghty wrote: > Bottom line: flavors came into being to satisfy specific needs. Python 2 > underwent substantial changes during the upgrade to python 3, to the exte= nt > that many (most) python applications would cease to function. Similarly > php5 to php7. Without flavours the user-base would've been severly > impacted during the upgrade transition where some fraction of their > applications would fail. Flavours, though I didn't appreciate it at the > time, was/is a really smart move and has saved most of us contorting our > systems with different versions of the "same" software >=20 > I suppose if the ruby developers make such a substantial change to the > language that applications break, then adding flavors to ruby might be > worthwhile. As stated, there is substantial effort required and the need > significant. And as I still have "ports" that use python2 (though most u= se > python3), I greatly appeciate their effort. >=20 > Is there a specific issue, ie breakage requiring ruby flavors? Thank you Dewayne, that is exactly it! Flavors tends to complexify the ports framework, so they have to be used wi= th caution. the more flavours that are being added the more impacted it has on= the package building performances, but also on the complexity of the ports tree itself. It also complexify the life of maintainers who have then to test ev= ery possible flavors. We at portmgr have decided to make a rule to try to find the right balance. If you look at flarvors for python you can see that the only supporte flavo= r are: one flavor for python3 and one flavor for python2 for the reason exposed by Dewayne exactly. Same goes for php. The last point is about end users, lots of end user are confused when you h= ave too many choices, each time a decision is made on the ports tree, the main target should be to think what will happen for end users. how can they chose what is the right version for them etc. What about big "ruby" project like puppet, should we have 3 version of it because ruby is flavored? how will end user pick up which is the right one = here. Again we do try to find the right balance. So yes if someone has strong arguments in favor of ruby flavors that will improve the user experience, then we will gladely add it. Also note that if you look at python's flavors, while is simplified a lot t= he life of end users we have ended up in a quite poor maintenance situation, l= ots of ports are packages for all the flavours while not working with all of th= em, many end user programs are being packages in both flavours for the sake of = it, but it confuses users for now reasons. That is something we should be caref= ul about. As for the build time arguments, yes it is true as well and if someone want= s kill that arguments, there are room of improvements in both poudriere and pkg for which we will be pleased to get working on ;) Best regards, Bapt --ngaaipn67ky2z2pc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEgOTj3suS2urGXVU3Y4mL3PG3PloFAl2AwKUACgkQY4mL3PG3 Plp7Qw//YtFKJ5UjdspkX96auXIX/wt6pBiKSPgsAFvm4DW5v4+IXEbvBCUve6H4 u4o1WUGVVvwqwFomGea1LLafMq+19LdL3/deBv9F0OPBhMxaopr7XuYfC/nrR69R 3FOu5gAFFyVCspEV260DT3uDGLLChVOQUgB4ggCLOwcJhWooTlpm3zZmDK4gYJqw jhEIK7NcyPPs6zZ2uWI4jIlqUlNJX+Zc+Cgdj6ED3xdaTi7H8vo3sKSXG87isR9K Spf1jQo6li1g5ZFFRNGyER8pXwmv9pxREVg2hWtE93wjqjWnq0ZzpWuUYLTwZU5i B+n+xBlx1OtQbQhaLbGIpeoVjZO94MruyrBK5IccISDz/oTpF2fu9wRCID9F4hlz Ubcz7Z1r/K/ZEqwYiK3+akEuFaujJH4GBbNY8+/MtUXpNTbV2pJ3Th61bjm1ByNI oN0Jv9f2BblvdvqQuWLWNoOZnL1ayJIxfUPh643Z9SJwsXlSqLUI20UmlFa1MaK7 EPi/lfFWhxAZytrLnyJfuOk8yaVGbFo950Fkki6UEtW9gD2oKtL/yRvK6j0zvLmt LMCbYw0btiRFe26y83LttVamxy+as6nL/QWyEtOg4El8oVOzQlkzyvG9qt2u66vO SxZ72KnatyLWWj5Jigq5aqbCnSZDrD7Mnf6mXt3+VWk1P2YdXpg= =JgWL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ngaaipn67ky2z2pc--
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