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Date:      Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:25:43 +0200
From:      "Karsten W. Rohrbach" <karsten@rohrbach.de>
To:        "Bruce A. Mah" <bmah@FreeBSD.ORG>
Cc:        Doug Barton <DougB@FreeBSD.ORG>, JJ Behrens <jj@nttmcl.com>, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: *** HEAD'S UP ***
Message-ID:  <20020425152543.A13500@mail.webmonster.de>
In-Reply-To: <200204241304.g3OD4slv062649@intruder.bmah.org>; from bmah@FreeBSD.ORG on Wed, Apr 24, 2002 at 06:04:54AM -0700
References:  <20020422114407.B21612@alicia.nttmcl.com> <20020423215717.S66402-100000@master.gorean.org> <20020424125400.F87244@mail.webmonster.de> <200204241304.g3OD4slv062649@intruder.bmah.org>

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Bruce A. Mah(bmah@FreeBSD.ORG)@2002.04.24 06:04:54 +0000:
> If memory serves me right, "Karsten W. Rohrbach" wrote:
>=20
> > How about a Changelog? NOTES (HEAD) and UPDATING in /usr/src are one
> > way, but a semi-automatic way of making changes transparent to the
> > administrator would be a good start, i think.
>=20
> How is this different from the release notes?

i have never seen some bits from the relnotes display while making
installword or executing mergemaster. the main idea here is to provide
the important aspects of release notes to people that just read how to
update (makeworld/mergemaster standard invocations) and start wondering
about things having changed, going to the mailing list and getting the
info from other users on how to find release notes for an uninstalled
base dist and being told to read the UPDATING. with proper automation
this would make things easier and produce less trouble for the
non-gurus.

> src/release/doc/*
> http://people.freebsd.org/~bmah/relnotes/

i know, bruce, but that was not my point.
generation of the docs requires the doctools me[tg]aport, which is not
installed on every firewall and smaller server due to obvious reasons ;-)

you know how to make the docs, i know how to generate them, but does a
newbie who just got the cd set and upgrades the system know it?=20

> > - most important, a list of _resolved_ SAs that are in the current dist.
> >   in fact, i recognize this as a major point, judging from several
> >   threads on -hackers and -security of the last weeks. finding out what
> >   "patch level" you are on an arbitrary box would be "more
> >   /etc/Changelog" and there you go. mergemaster would display the diff
> >   between old and new version right when it starts, so the admin
> >   instantly gets an overview of what major things have changed
>=20
> This information is in UPDATING.  I suppose one could make a credible

root@WM:datasink[/usr/src]3# grep SA UPDATING=20
    - MSA port (587) turned on by default
root@WM:datasink[/usr/src]4# grep '$FreeBSD:' UPDATING=20
$FreeBSD: src/UPDATING,v 1.73.2.62 2002/04/21 22:33:06 dougb Exp $

no, the information is not in updating.
my /usr/src is
    *default release=3Dcvs tag=3DRELENG_4
as of today, synced from cvsup7.de.freebsd.org which is two hours behind
cvsup-master. i checked the logs, it is sync.

> argument that it should be in the release notes for the security
> branches (e.g. RELENG_4_5), but that's not the way we do things
> currently.

i know, that's why i brought up this issue for discussion.

errh, btw:
root@WM:datasink[/usr/src]5# grep '$FreeBSD:' README  =20
$FreeBSD: src/README,v 1.15.2.3 2000/10/27 16:14:34 asmodai Exp $

the readme tells about synching, kernel config, what the subdirectories
contain, and that's about it. it would make sense to lead a newbie to
either the online docs or to an already generated ascii version of the
relnotes of the release he's actually going to install. just a thought.

i know, there's a chicken-and-egg problem in here, and i can't come up
with an automated solution for it, since i am not the keeper of the
docs. do you generate your relnotes web page automatically? could you
somehow check the release notes into the corresponding branches on an
automated basis? it would be really a Good Thing[tm] to have
http://people.freebsd.org/~bmah/relnotes/4.5-RELEASE/relnotes-i386.txt
in /usr/src/RELNOTES for 4.5 based systems, for example, because
- it is available locally
- it is already compiled to ascii
- /usr/src/RELNOTES is a very prominent spot which can be found even by
  someone totally new to freebsd

regards,
/k

--=20
> Fools ignore complexity. Pragmatists suffer it. Some can avoid it.
> Geniuses remove it.
> --Perlis's Programming Proverb #58, SIGPLAN Notices, Sept. 1982=20
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