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Date:      Tue, 15 Nov 2022 10:04:12 -0700
From:      Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
To:        Alexey Dokuchaev <danfe@freebsd.org>
Cc:        "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" <freebsd-arch@freebsd.org>, FreeBSD PowerPC ML <freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Boot Loader: OFW network booting support
Message-ID:  <CANCZdfrL4SKC0ADWCFpzuVc2EpRxnxz0c_Ykb2wGLXNKEtM_Rw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <Y3Lro/8ae6FfE2WH@FreeBSD.org>
References:  <CANCZdfr3b2_1WnMtxrK%2B6Sm-Z3GE2ifGK5sGQWAiBhhPgkNAvA@mail.gmail.com> <Y3Lro/8ae6FfE2WH@FreeBSD.org>

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On Mon, Nov 14, 2022, 6:30 PM Alexey Dokuchaev <danfe@freebsd.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 09:34:25AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote:
> > I'd like to drop support for OFW network booting.
> >
> > These days, the only OpenFirmware machines are really old Mac G4 and G5
> > machines. Nothing else can use it (it used to be shared with sparc64
> > machines).
>
> Which are still in use.  Particularly, Mac mini G4 and Power Mac G5 make
> good backup/storage boxes and just nice piece of hardware to have around.
>

Ok. But surely not a lot of them anymore...

> So, rather than do a lot of work I can barely test (I might have an old G4
> > mac in my dad's old thing), I'm thinking about dropping the support,
> > especially since I don't think it's been used by anybody in a long time.
>
> Netbooting had always been preferred over to flashing optical media due
> to how easy it is to setup.  This is the first option recommended by
> grehan@
> in his guide* and that's how I installed FreeBSD on all my G4/G5 machines.
>
> My votes goes to keep it.
>

You are asking for at least two hours of my time to code and test what i
know i can. Likely 4 or 5 more if I have to setup and debug netbooting for
an old g4 Mac tower I have (including time to find vga monitors, keyboards
etc that I have, but are buried in my crawlspace).

So here's the deal. If someone has the ability to test and shows that it's
working today and promises to test my changes and help me debug it, then
I'll keep it and add the new code that's needed to continue to support this
feature.

Alternatively, if someone has the recipe for FreeBSD/powerpc on QEMU that
includes OpenFirmware for disks and networking, I'll do the testing and
legwork to get my netboot setup locally.

Otherwise, I'm going to save myself some time and this feature will be no
more. I'm not going to speculatively waste time for something nobody can
even be bothered to demonstrate still works :) Harsh, yes, I know, but
better to be up-front about it and quietly break it which I'm pretty sure
is what will happen if I don't test the new code.

Warner


./danfe
>
> *) https://people.freebsd.org/~grehan/install.html
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"auto"><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 14, 2022, 6:30 PM Alexey =
Dokuchaev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:danfe@freebsd.org" target=3D"_blank">danfe@=
freebsd.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Mon, =
Nov 14, 2022 at 09:34:25AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote:<br>
&gt; I&#39;d like to drop support for OFW network booting.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; These days, the only OpenFirmware machines are really old Mac G4 and G=
5<br>
&gt; machines. Nothing else can use it (it used to be shared with sparc64<b=
r>
&gt; machines).<br>
<br>
Which are still in use.=C2=A0 Particularly, Mac mini G4 and Power Mac G5 ma=
ke<br>
good backup/storage boxes and just nice piece of hardware to have around.<b=
r></blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Ok=
. But surely not a lot of them anymore...</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>
&gt; So, rather than do a lot of work I can barely test (I might have an ol=
d G4<br>
&gt; mac in my dad&#39;s old thing), I&#39;m thinking about dropping the su=
pport,<br>
&gt; especially since I don&#39;t think it&#39;s been used by anybody in a =
long time.<br>
<br>
Netbooting had always been preferred over to flashing optical media due<br>
to how easy it is to setup.=C2=A0 This is the first option recommended by g=
rehan@<br>
in his guide* and that&#39;s how I installed FreeBSD on all my G4/G5 machin=
es.<br>
<br>
My votes goes to keep it.<br></blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"auto">You are asking for at least two hours of my time t=
o code and test what i know i can. Likely 4 or 5 more if I have to setup an=
d debug netbooting for an old g4 Mac tower I have (including time to find v=
ga monitors, keyboards etc that I have, but are buried in my crawlspace).</=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">So here&#39;s the deal. I=
f someone has the ability to test and shows that it&#39;s working today and=
 promises to test my changes and help me debug it, then I&#39;ll keep it an=
d add the new code that&#39;s needed to continue to support this feature.</=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Alternatively, if someone=
 has the recipe=C2=A0for FreeBSD/powerpc on QEMU that includes OpenFirmware=
 for disks and networking, I&#39;ll do the testing and legwork to get my ne=
tboot setup locally.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div>Otherwise, I&#39=
;m going to save myself some time and this feature will be no more. I&#39;m=
 not going to speculatively waste time for something nobody can even be bot=
hered to demonstrate still works :) Harsh, yes, I know, but better to be up=
-front about it and quietly break it which I&#39;m pretty sure is what will=
 happen if I don&#39;t test the new code.</div><div><br></div><div>Warner</=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"aut=
o"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
./danfe<br>
<br>
*) <a href=3D"https://people.freebsd.org/~grehan/install.html" rel=3D"noref=
errer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://people.freebsd.org/~grehan/inst=
all.html</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div></div>
</div>

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