Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:07:06 -0700 From: "Michael P. Sale" <mike@merchantsnet.com> To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems Message-ID: <01bd6258$5bc62bc0$4206bccc@708644668>
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-----Original Message----- From: Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au> To: Michael P. Sale <mike@merchantsnet.com> Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG> Date: Monday, April 06, 1998 9:07 PM Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems >On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 07:30:39PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: >> Yikes, >> >> What a mess! > >[sigh] I'll see if I can tidy it up a bit. Why are you using microslop >anyway? Sorry......Seemed to work at the time, and now with all my filters in place I've been to busy (lazy) to change. > >> >> >On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 06:18:16PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: >> > >> >> While >> >> >> trying to mount my floppy (following instructions on "the complete >> >> freebsd" >> >> >> pg 211) I ran into all sorts of fun with that darn /A. After buying a >> >> >> little sense, I did some searching and came up with the /mnt instead. >> >> Works >> >> >> just fine now, though I'm still searching for how to get the /A set up as >> >> >> well.. >> >> > > >>>>> We're not getting the full picture yet. Is it a DOS formatted >>>>> floppy? Have you told /etc/fstab to expect one of those when >>>>> mounting /A or not? Does the /A directory exist? Exactly what >>>>> command are you using to mount the floppy? > >>>> /A does not show up in /etc/fstab. I suspected that I needed it in there, > >>>Not necessarily. > >> Mmmmm. OK, then how does one get it to work? Fess up the info. > >If I understand this stuff correctly, you don't need /etc/fstab at >all, but you do need to be specific when you give the mount command. > >You can use /etc/fstab to make life easier though. I tell it to >expect a CD to be mounted on /cdrom, so when I say "mount /cdrom" >mount goes hunting around in fstab and gets the rest of the info, >that it's a CD9660. You could do the same thing with floppies, have a >directory called /floppy and put the relevant info in fstab. I'd >never bother for floppies. I'll look into it, but I suspect you are correct. > > >> >> If I format the floppy with freebsd I use the mount /dev/fd0 >> >> /mnt command. >> >> >> >> With a win95/DOS disk I use the mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /mnt command. >> >> >> >> Both seem to work just fine, though I went searching through the >> >> archives to find the mount -t msdos command. Up until then, I >> >> had a heck of a time figuring out how to get the file systems >> >> working right. >> > >> >So what happens, what does it say, when it doesn't work? >> >> Not sure what you're lookin for here. When what does not work? > >Hmmm... that was to be MY question :-) > >> If you are talking about file system incompatibility, win95 would >> declare a freebsd formatted disk unformatted. Funny though. When >> I would mount a dos disk with only mount /dev/fd0, freebsd would >> mount, write and read the disk. Win95 would read the disk as >> formatted, but would not see any files on it...... > >No I wasn't, and I'm not likely to come across what you described >there so I don't want to confuse myself over it just now. > > >> >> The point I now realize I am trying to make is "how intuitive is >> >> it for the newbie user to figure the /A out before he/she gets >> >> to that page?" If I'm just a goof (possible) and it is fairly >> >> simple and I missed it earlier in the docs, then it can be >> >> forgotten about. > >Maybe you wouldn't have felt like that if it'd worked first go? Ah ha! That's why I brought it up. :-) > >> >Now that I take a quick look at the book, it seems to be saying >> >"this is a lead-in _example_ of how you would do it with a ufs >> >floppy, but of course you'll be using FAT floppies as described >> >over the page, for reasons given over the page" >> >> True. That was the intended use from the beginning. I was trying >> to get my ppp.conf file over from the freebsd box to win95 so I >> could post it in questions. :-) I did not however understand that >> I would need to treat the disk differently until a lot of searching >> and reading later. > >It's a pity you didn't know how incredibly simple this task could >have been. All you need is something like: > >mcopy /etc/ppp/ppp.conf a: True, though now that I do know it, I'll probably be less likely to go to mtools. > > >> >> If getting to the /A requires new questions and searching upon >> >> getting to page 211 (I went there pretty quickly because it was >> >> the "floppy disks" chapter), then I think it would be nice to >> >> have a little blurb that says "hey you goof, if you are getting >> >> xxxx error when trying to mount the >> > >> >Yeah? Well what is your xxxx error? No secrets now! :-) >> >> Error reads as follows: >> mount: /A: No such file or directory > > ::BINGO:: > >It tells you what's gone wrong. Why didn't you say that in the first >place? I know, that would have made it a straightforward question and >you wouldn't have had the chance to chat :-) [sigh] I understand what it means, just not why it shows up. > > >> >> floppy, please try mount /dev/fd0 /mnt and reference page xx for >> >> details on how to get /A set up correctly in your /etc/fstab >> >> file". >> > >> >I very much doubt that that is what you would want to do. >> >> Why not? <clueless look> > >You don't need, and I can't imagine why you'd want, to have floppy >stuff in your fstab, even if you were masochistic enough to ignore >mtools and try to mount and unmount the things. Yikes.....I guess after my last comment I'm going to have to subscribe to masochists anonymous. :-( I appreciate the mtools information, but I can't see any advantage to using them and no one has given me any. Mounting/unmounting the floppy is as easy as writing 2 quick scripts. (Masochistically doen allready) :-) I appreciate advice (really, I do!), but without the facts behind the advice it's hard for me to justify learning something new when I have so much to learn, and I can't see a difference in changing. > >Also, if you had the best help in the world to frill up your fstab >and get the mounting commands just right, it still wouldn't mount for >you if /A didn't exist or couldn't be found. We still have not aswered the "why can't it be found" question. > >> >Generally DOS formatted floppies are used (read on to see why), >> >and there's two ways I know of to access them. Either they can be >> >mounted (with a command that says they're DOS or with an fstab >> >entry), or you can skip all that baloney and use the easier mtools >> >(described later in the chapter) which are intuitive, magic, and >> >don't require mounting to happen. >> >> See above comment on how I mounted the dos a third way (didn't work >> correctly)......Either way, I tried several different mount (no >> mtools) tactics with the /A and none worked. The only thing that >> ever worked was going to the /mnt at the end vs the /A. > >And what you're telling yourself here is that the only difference >between working and not working was the name of the directory. Your >error message confirms that that's where the problem is. > >> As for mtools. Not sure if I really see an advantage to mtools or >> not. The only thing I read that made an impression (granted it was >> a quick read) was the possible problem with carriage returns >> getting funked up during copies. Isn't there a unix utility that >> will fix that too though? > >You sound a bit like me, always getting tied up in the most difficult >looking part of something. In this case, mtools is so simple that >only the tricky bits need explaining. Forget it. Just use mtools to >work with floppies. Pretend it's DOS but put "m" as the first letter >of each command. If your text files get funny characters at the end >of lines, delete them with your trusty text editor when they annoy. >When you've become convinced that mtools is wonderful, start looking >at what else it can do. If it doesn't work, RTFM or experiment. Again, I appreciate the info, but "just use mtools" does not give me the information needed to make a decision. (I'm busy rapping myself on the head to see just how hard it is right now!) > >> >> This was why I thought it may be a decent "newbies" topic. I >> >> doubt too many Unix guru's have too much trouble mounting >> >> floppies or figuring out how to modify the /etc/fstab file. >> > >> >Well the best you can expect here is to share someone else's >> >misinformation until it's together enough to make an answerable >> >question. Sometimes during that process the problem goes away. On >> >the other hand, that too can be a newbies illusion :-) >> >> Yikes!! I expect better than that!! :-} > >Then you should have gone to freebsd-questions and had your question >ripped to shreds there instead of here :-) They handle the newest >newbies questions, but they kinda like to know what the problem is >right up front. It's a good thing I didn't. I doubt very much that the questions list would appreciate this discussion. :-) > > >> >See if you read the book the same way as I do now, or not. >> > >> Yes and no. I think I understand where you are going with this. I >> have not read enough of the book to really agree or disagree. I do >> think that having a chapter with "floppy disks" in the title should >> either fully explain how to mount the darn things or point the >> newbie user someplace that can. I don't think that the pages in >> that chapter do it. Again, I have not read the whole book ( I >> think my poor little melon would explode), much less ever tried to >> write one, but I do think that the chapter makes a few assumptions >> that newbies could choke on. Greg does a great job of dropping >> hints and pointing readers to other places for information, I just >> think it may be an option here too. > >I'm not saying you're wrong, but I read it differently. The intro to >the section on floppies gives an "overview", four examples of how >floppies might be used. The third sounds like what you wanted to do, >and it points you straight to page 212. I think it should be pointing >to 213 but no matter, you see the big "Accessing Microsoft floppies" >heading leaping out on the right there. I suspect one of two things will happen here. A: After reading more of the book, I will come to read the book as you do. B: We will read the book differently for a looong time. Either way should be interesting! > >> As a side note, I also understand that you can't have pointers to >> everything all over the place. That's why I posted it here, to see >> whether I was nuts or not and to see if other newbies had the same >> problems I did. > >I've got this theory that no matter how clearly you make >instructions, the more desperately someone needs them the less they >are able to take in what they say. When things start going wrong >there's too much information to take in, let alone sort the >essentials from the extras. It doesn't help to tell someone they're >crazy if they can't see it, even when that someone is yourself. >People just work that way. What do you reckon? Don't know if I've ever met a crazy that's known it. Either way, I think the point here has been missed. The point is that the book directs a user to do something that is not possible, given the information available in that chapter. Period. It does not direct you to information that will allow the command mount /etc/fd0 /A to work if it fails, nor does it offer the workaround mount /etc/fd0 /mnt. You cannot mount a freedbsd formatted floppy in the way that is suggested in the chapter, much less a DOS one. Forget mtools, forget that I indeed wanted a DOS floppy. You cannot mount anything (even a freebsd formatted floppy) on my system using the command mount /dev/fd0 /A. The archives bear out the fact that I am not the only person that has had this trouble. The original post was trying to figure out whether or not I missed something early on in the book that would in fact lead to this command working correctly as stated on page 211. I'm sorry above paragraphs may sound abrupt, but I think this thread is getting off the original topic. > > >-- > >Regards, > -*Sue*- > >find / -name "*.conf" |more > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message> Are we having fun yet? Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
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