Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 23:31:09 -0600 From: Scott Long <scottl@samsco.org> To: Rui Paulo <rpaulo@FreeBSD.org>, Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@FreeBSD.org> Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, net@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ipfilter(4) needs maintainer Message-ID: <E2F803DD-1F3A-430E-957F-7AB1904CDF42@samsco.org> In-Reply-To: <7D8ACD5C-821D-4505-82E4-02267A7BA4F8@FreeBSD.org> References: <20130411201805.GD76816@FreeBSD.org> <7D8ACD5C-821D-4505-82E4-02267A7BA4F8@FreeBSD.org>
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On Apr 12, 2013, at 7:43 PM, Rui Paulo <rpaulo@FreeBSD.org> wrote: > On 2013/04/11, at 13:18, Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@FreeBSD.org> wrote: >=20 >> Lack of maintainer in a near future would lead to bitrot due to = changes >> in other areas of network stack, kernel APIs, etc. This already = happens, >> many changes during 10.0-CURRENT cycle were only compile tested wrt >> ipfilter. If we fail to find maintainer, then a correct decision = would be >> to remove ipfilter(4) from the base system before 10.0-RELEASE. >=20 > This has been discussed in the past. Every time someone came up and = said "I'm still using ipfilter!" and the idea to remove it dies with it.=20= > I've been saying we should remove it for 4 years now. Not only it's = outdated but it also doesn't not fit well in the FreeBSD roadmap. Then = there's the question of maintainability. We gave the author a commit bit = so that he could maintain it. That doesn't happen anymore and it sounds = like he has since moved away from FreeBSD. I cannot find any reason to = burden another FreeBSD developer with maintaining ipfilter. >=20 One thing that FreeBSD is bad about (and this really applies to many = open source projects) when deprecating something is that the developer = and release engineering groups rarely provide adequate, if any, tools to = help users transition and cope with the deprecation. The fear of = deprecation can be largely overcome by giving these users a clear and = comprehensive path forward. Just announcing "ipfilter is going away. = EOM" is inadequate and leads to completely justified complaints from = users. So with that said, would it be possible to write some tutorials on how = to migrate an ipfilter installation to pf? Maybe some mechanical syntax = docs accompanied by a few case studies? Is it possible for a script to = automate some of the common mechanical changes? Also essential is a = clear document on what goes away with ipfilter and what is gained with = pf. Once those tools are written, I suggest announcing that ipfilter is = available but deprecated/unsupported in FreeBSD 10, and will be removed = from FreeBSD 11. Certain people will still pitch a fit about it = departing, but if the tools are there to help the common users, you'll = be successful in winning mindshare and general support. Scott
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