Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 13:06:12 -0800 From: Dave Hayes <dave@kachina.jetcafe.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding a damn 2nd disk Message-ID: <199603202106.NAA05989@kachina.jetcafe.org>
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"Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com> writes: >> >Because few people work with us to make it turnkey. >> Why is that? >No idea. It's a boring and thankless task, perhaps? Could be. >If you're keen to throw $$$ my way so that I can >actually afford to do this someday, the full details on donations are >given in http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/submitters.html >> I await it too. Gee, if I understood it well enough to automate it, >> I'd have done so, my server would be in it's previous state, and there >> would have been no flame. But the tools don't work. Fdisk doesn't >> work reliably. Without fdisk, disklabel seems worthless. >I sincerely suggest commercial software in your case then. Clearly, >you just don't "get it" about this free stuff and I can only point >you at an organization like BSDI who is at least paid to try and fix >your complaints in a timely fashion. I do "get it" about this free stuff. The free stuff is guaranteed not to be affected by marketing hype, the frail whims of a tyrant overlord CEO, or a big mass communications company's desire for profit. Many companies have been forced to go down a certain technical path because of the previous bullshit. With "free UNIX", it's now possible to chart your own destiny. Naturally, I think in the long term that the $$$ you seem to want (implied by your previous comments) would come as a welcome donation from some of the cooler companies out there...assuming someone can get them to see the wisdom of this way. Commercial software is a panacea of great price and little worth to those who are sick of upgrading to long term dead end OSs like NT. >Again, as I said quite directly in my first reply to you - the >problems with fdisk and disklabel's interfaces are KNOWN. Not by me. If someone will point me to the problems, as I told Andres, I will write them up in HTML and send them to you folks...section 10.4 I believe? >> Unfortunately, there's a LOT to learn about this particular invocation >> of BSD and why it does what it does. I'd much rather spend the time >> seeing what it can do, and getting other companies interested in using >> it. >And I'd be more than happy to see you engage in such promotion. I'm >well aware of the concept of "each to his or her own particular area >of strength." However, you will have to learn to be a lot more >patient with the areas of weakness if you want to hang out here and >use this product without bringing angry denounciations down upon your >head. Look, I'm sorry I got pissed. Can I be human and get pissed off at losing a man month of work because sysinstall doesn't know the difference between its disks? >Venting your spleen about some bug which mangled your system, killed >your dog and drove your wife into the arms of the cable repairman may >make you feel better for a time, but NO positive result will ensue and >you will have done *nothing* to encourage a resolution of the problem - >quite the opposite, most likely. It's a far more positive approach to >ask instead how you might help to fix the problem, even if it's only to >act as a focal point for ideas, or presenting your own ideas as to how >you would like such a utility to look. When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's quite difficult to remember that your initial intention was to drain the swamp. >You have no "money" in the bank yet and hence have no credit for such >attacks of angst. This doesn't mean that you can't state your case, >you most certainly can, simply that you have no right to state it >forcefully since that will simply get you ignored as a flaming >expletive who does not appreciate all the good work that the project >HAS done. Then people who feel this way can consider me whatever they want. The people I generally work with are those who don't see the fulmination you refer to as anything serious, and are willing to help in spite of this. If you are truly passing yourself off as altruistic, you shouldn't demonstrate a need for validation for such altruism. If you demand validation, then that is the currency by which you are paid for your deeds. Don't get me wrong, I see what you are saying. I just don't agree. For one thing, you have no idea what I've been doing for FreeBSD because you haven't seen it. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't been done, and if you claim to want to see it before I can complain...you are demanding that I get validation from you for what I've done. -I- don't want any validation, I just want to do the work and see the thing succeed. Dig? >> I guess I'm questioning priorities in an absence of any knowledge >> about why. Losing an entire server because of a bug in sysinstall >> tends to get some people to flame first, and ask questions later. >If those people have little self-control, yes. Fortunately, most of >our users are actually fairly intelligent about the "lack of warranty" >implied by running free software and they're also more in control of >their emotions. Fine, I suck. Now can you point me in the direction of why fdisk fails? >> I did. I just rebuilt my server, and acquired more experience with >> sysinstall. That's something, isn't it? >For you, yes. For those who follow in your footsteps, no. In point >of fact, that's just about what everyone else who's encountered this >bug has done, which shows reasonable attention to self-interest but >very little to the community interest. The fallacy of this approach >should be fairly obvious to you, considering that you just tripped >over the same rock that none of the other sufferers ever bothered to >move out of the way. The fallacy of contributing to a community in a vacuum of quality information about the community's standards should be quite obvious as well. I don't know what your standards are, nor am I privvy to them. I'm just pointing out flaws. If you don't want that, I'll go away. ------ >>> Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org <<< The king arrived at the resturant where Nasrudin had been left in charge. The king ordered an omelette. After his meal, when he saw the check he raised his eyebrows. "Eggs must be very costly here. Are they as scarce as that?" "It is not the eggs, your majesty...it is the visits of kings."
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