Skip site navigation (1)Skip section navigation (2)
Date:      Wed, 12 Dec 2018 17:04:44 -0800
From:      Juli Mallett <juli@northcloak.com>
To:        Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
Cc:        yamori813@yahoo.co.jp, freebsd-mips@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: MIPS future...
Message-ID:  <CAGSiXYxtDH0MBHFwCGSXxjE-22JWdmFbkX8zK2j9FsTRqcVJZg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfrfiR8=hd2nZsh1kuH6t_nbrdk=VHESZ4nzW-ZH2WfO-g@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <CANCZdfpK5mPDDgpJ5PVhXF7-MixSouW8mAKkWQcaRnmYW%2Bpy0g@mail.gmail.com> <CANCZdfq8PMDdnEnBeBsQ-evJph9Bf1P-gp3v3DYzeUWHV5FOAw@mail.gmail.com> <367298.45441.qm@web103901.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp> <CANCZdfrfiR8=hd2nZsh1kuH6t_nbrdk=VHESZ4nzW-ZH2WfO-g@mail.gmail.com>

next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
On Wed, 12 Dec 2018 at 16:12, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 3:53 PM Mori Hiroki <yamori813@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hi
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > >From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
> > >To: "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" <freebsd-mips@freebsd.org>
> > >Date: 2018/12/13, Thu 07:15
> > >Subject: Re: MIPS future...
> > >
> > >On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 11:15 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> OK. To be a good player in the FreeBSD ecosystem, we need to do  a few
> > >> things.
> > >>
> > >> First, we need to implement atomic_swap_64. hps did this for mips64
> and
> > >> committed it. He sent me some further patches for it that I need to
> > commit
> > >> when I get a change, maybe at the airport tonight.
> > >>
> > >> But this brings up a couple of issues I'd like to bring up.
> > >>
> > >> First, to implement atomic_swap_64 on mips-32 is hard. In that it's
> not
> > >> just the canonical ldd/sdd sequence because those aren't available
> > there.
> > >> We can do the standard trick of reading STATUS0, clearing IE, storing
> > it,
> > >> do the operation and then restoring STATUS0. This is efficient enough
> > for
> > >> the use in the kernel for the supported cores we have.
> > >>
> > >> With two exceptions. First is running 32-bit kernels on 64-bit
> hardware.
> > >> We deprecated that with Octeon because of the weird hacks we needed to
> > do
> > >> too make it work. I'd like to universally deprecate this. There's
> little
> > >> benefit and a real cost to doing this. I'd like to remove the
> SWARM_SMP,
> > >> XLP, and GXEMUL32 (or at least remove the smp option).
> > >>
> > >> But there's JZ4780. It's a legit mips32 + SMP. It's on Image Creator's
> > >> CI20. This was released in Nov 2014 with a refresh in March 2015. This
> > is a
> > >> dead-end product line (there's no new cores and none new that I can
> > find).
> > >> This was a RPi competitor, but it was slower, less capable and more
> > >> expensive so it's kinda rare now. I'd say we need to de-support this
> > >> device. I know of only one user, and he's not responded to my email. I
> > >> think 12 will have to be the last release we have this in. Today, the
> > only
> > >> affect is for some drivers that can't run on this platform, but the
> > writing
> > >> is on the wall.
> > >>
> > >> That brings me to my next question: SWARM. Can we kill SWARM entirely?
> > >> It's for the BCM1250 part, released in sometime before 2000. It was
> > super
> > >> popular because it was the reference for a ton of things that
> followed.
> > I
> > >> think it's run is over and we can remove it. I can find no users of it
> > in
> > >> the nyc dmesg database. Mine has been in a plastic bag since before my
> > sone
> > >> was born in 2006... So I'm thinking we can remove this platform. It
> was
> > on
> > >> the edge last time I did a GC in mips-land.
> > >>
> > >> And then there's the even larger question: how many people are still
> > using
> > >> mips32? It looks like a fair number, maybe, but I have no idea for
> > sure, so
> > >> if you do, please provide feedback on the platforms you are running
> > FreeBSD
> > >> 11 or newer on.
> > >>
> > >
> > >There's one last issue this brings up. When writing the above code, I
> > >discovered I could use the non-racy DI instruction. However, that was
> > >introduced with mips32r2. This was defined in 2002 and gear appeared in
> > the
> > >market 2004 or 2005. I believe that all supported SoCs have mips32r2.
> > SWARM
> > >doesn't, which is another reason to kill it: it's getting in the way and
> > >providing no benefit. Would anybody object to the minimum ISA being
> raised
> > >to mips32r2 for all 32-bit mips platforms?
> > >
> > >Warner
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >freebsd-mips@freebsd.org mailing list
> > >https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mips
> > >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-mips-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > mips32 is called by 4K
> > mips32r2 is called by 24K
>

I would note that although MIPS (the company) pushed this naming for a
period in the '00s, it can be confusing, because the R4000 (which was
widely called R4K or sometimes even just 4K), which was the basis for a lot
of MIPS CPUs, is actually MIPS-III (or mips3 in modern parlance, but I'm
trapped in the '90s), and 64-bit rather than 32-bit.  MIPS32, of course, is
actually MIPS-III narrowed to 32-bit, plus a little extra.  This leads some
people to assume that MIPS32 came first, and then there were 64-bit CPUs,
but this is not so.  MIPS-III was 64-bit, R4000 was 64-bit, as were R4400,
and all of the SGI CPUs and many third-party MIPS ISA CPUs of the late '90s.

So I would slightly discourage use of the "4K" moniker and rather suggest
using the ISA names, even though those confuse people, too, as consistently
as possible, in a thread where bit-width, modernness, etc., are on the
table.


> > In current FreeBSD mips support at 4K is Rakink RT2880 and Atheros
> > AR531x. Ralink RT3050 later and Newer Atheros is 24K or 74K.
> >
>
> OK. That's good to know. The AR531x boards generally are under-provisioned
> for memory, and somewhat slow. The RT2880 appears to be in the same class.
> I'd be quite surprised if anybody could do anything non-trivial with those
> boards.
>
> Also Broadcom BCM4712 and BCM5354 is 4K but it's still hangup. Last
> > Broadcom MIPS soc that is BCM4718 and BCM5357 is 74K.
> >
>
> So the older SENTRY5 chips, which weren't all that common, but which are
> definitely mips4k chips. They are only a little better than the AR531x
> chips. The newer BCM stuff still looks relevant. Thanks for the pointers.
>
> I have question. Can do generate 24K code by gcc 4.2.1 and binutils?
> >
>
> I think that adding the following to the config file
> makeoptions ARCH_FLAGS="-march=mips32r2"
> comes close. You may need too add -EL if it's little endian.
>
> The only other config file tagged MIPS4k is GXEMUL, which may have run its
> useful lifetime in FreeBSD as well.
>
> Warner
>
> P.S. I'll post a summary of the implications of mips32"r1" removal if
> there's any opposition.
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd-mips@freebsd.org mailing list
> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mips
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-mips-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
>



Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?CAGSiXYxtDH0MBHFwCGSXxjE-22JWdmFbkX8zK2j9FsTRqcVJZg>