Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 22:04:06 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Harding <sharding@ophelia.uoregon.edu> To: wsanchez@apple.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD and Rhapsody (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980404220218.274F-100000@ophelia.uoregon.edu>
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I'm forwarding this to freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; those are good people
to talk to.
Sean
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 20:46:22 -0800
From: Wilfredo Sanchez <wsanchez@apple.com>
To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: FreeBSD and Rhapsody
Howdy-
I'm having a hard time figuring out how one becomes a FreeBSD developer
from your web site, so perhaps you guys can help me out. I work for Apple
Computer, and as you may know, we're building this operating system with
the code name Rhapsody. Rhapsody has a full BSD subsystem in it, and we'd
like to get a relationship going with FreeBSD if the FreeBSD team is
interested.
Most of our BSD code comes from 4BSD Lite, which is a bit dated. Since
last year, I've updated a lot of our user commands using NetBSD's
sources. The decision to use NetBSD was pretty much arbitrary, although
the fact that I can acces their code via CVS, and now can commit changes
back in was a big influence.
In any case, the BSD kernel guys at Apple usually use FreeBSD as a
reference. This led to some small gotchas due to differences between
NetBSD and FreeBSD, such as the fact that NetBSD lets you change mode
bits on symlinks, which FreeBSD (I think) doesn't. So I had a little
trouble with commands like cp, which tried to do this thing we don't
support. I haven't gotten to the network and system commands and the
libraries, where I think the biggest incompatibility problem lie, and the
consensus is that I should look into using FreeBSD for those. There will
be problems in any case, since we implement BSD over Mach, which makes
commands like ps somewhat unique from other BSD's, but the goal is to
minimize that.
What I need to know is the degree that you would like to work together
with Apple, if at all, in this regard. It's important that we be able to
send our changes back upstream, since I believe that staying in sync with
our source provider is more important than any competitive advantage that
might buy us. UNIX is of little importance to Rhapsody from a market
standpoint; there are plenty of good UNIX flavors that one can get for
free; the value in Rhapsody lies elsewhere. But BSD *is* important for
several reason, which I'm sure you appreciate. The key is we don't want
to provide "a better UNIX", we just want to be compatible and play nice
with other systems, and have all that functionality. To that end, we
don't need to be unique, and cooperating with you guys would be much
better.
I tried a few times to get CVSup to work on Rhapsody, and I found it
somewhat difficult, so I don't have that tool, although I could set up a
FreeBSD box to do that. Currently I plan to use the Walnut Creek CDs,
since that's more convenient. The question is how I would get changes
back up to FreeBSD. CVS access would be ideal, and is our current
arrangement with NetBSD. I understand that such access isn't easily
granted, so I'm open to alternatives.
I should mention that I'm really not all that interested in the merits
of one BSD effort over the others. I'm a little surprised at the
animosity between some developers toward the other groups, and don't
really want to get involved in that debate, so don't tell me why the
other guys stink, in case you are so inclined. I have no loyalties
towards any one group. Ideally, we'd get the best of each, although I
think we'll need a primary to keep things sane, and our kernel guys like
FreeBSD.
I believe that getting something set up that let us work together will
be mutually beneficial. We can leverage the work you have done, and you
can some paid developers to help with bugs.
Thanks,
-Fred
---
Wilfredo Sanchez - wsanchez@apple.com - 408.974-5174
Apple Computer, Inc. - Rhapsody Core Operating Systems Group
2 Infinite Loop, Mail Stop 302-4K, Cupertino, CA 95014
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