Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2023 13:59:05 -0700 From: Mark Millard <marklmi@yahoo.com> To: John Baldwin <jhb@freebsd.org>, freebsd-arch <freebsd-arch@freebsd.org> Cc: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Subject: Re: Future of 32-bit platforms (including i386) Message-ID: <D9640E86-BCC5-4FD3-ACB0-34CFD98D5971@yahoo.com> References: <D9640E86-BCC5-4FD3-ACB0-34CFD98D5971.ref@yahoo.com>
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John Baldwin <jhb_at_FreeBSD.org> wrote on Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2023 19:33:57 UTC : > On 5/23/23 4:46 PM, John Baldwin wrote: > > On 4/27/23 10:19 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > >> For 13.0, i386 was demoted from Tier 1 to Tier 2. In the = announcement > >> of this for 13.0, the project committed to an update on i386's = future > >> around the time of 14.0. The announcement at the time suggested = that > >> i386 would be supported less in 14.x than in 13.x. > >> > >> My proposal is that for 14.x we treat i386 like any other Tier 2 > >> platform. That is, release images and packages would only be = provided > >> on a best-effort basis, and we would not guarantee providing them. = I > >> think we should also stop shipping binary updates for the base = system > >> (freebsd-update) for 14.x for i386. > >> > >> A larger question is what to do about 32-bit platforms moving = forward. > >> My proposal for powerpc, i386, and armv[67] is that we say publicly > >> that we anticipate not supporting them in 15. That is, that we may > >> remove them outright from the tree, or we may leave them in the = tree, > >> but we do not plan on building packages or release images. Another > >> option to consider for 32-bit platforms perhaps in 15 is to remove > >> kernel support and only retain the ability to build userland. The > >> goal of saying this now-ish (or about the time 14.0 is going to = ship) > >> would be to give time for users and developers to respond in the > >> window between 14.0 and 15.0 so we can evaluate those responses as = an > >> input into the final decision for 15. > >=20 > > We discussed this topic during the 15.0 developer summit and the = consensus > > among the folks present (which is only a subset of our community), = is > > that there is still interest in supporting armv7 kernels in 15.0, = but not > > kernels for other platforms. In addition, no one expressed a need = for > > full 32-bit world support for i386 and powerpc, only for compat32 = support > > in the kernel, and lib32 (cc -m32) support in userland. > >=20 > > One question for this is if we think we will have sufficient = developer > > resources to maintain armv7 kernels for the life of stable/15. We = can > > largely punt on the final decision for that until close to the = release of > > 15.0. I think for what we announce for 14.0 we can still say that we > > are generally planning to remove 32-bit kernel and world support in = 15.0, > > but may consider keeping armv7. >=20 > I've posted a couple of reviews to add a WARNING to dmesg during the = boot > of 32-bit kernels as well as to add a note to RELNOTES to serve as the > starting point for the note in the release notes: >=20 > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D41163 > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D41164 >=20 > Also, Mike Karels has been working on lib32 support for aarch64 that = should > be included in 14.0. I see no wording about armv6 being removed earlier. At one time Warner had written: >> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 11:48 AM Mark Millard <marklmi@yahoo.com> = wrote: >> FYI: The old 2021-Oct-28 message related to armv6 removal >> sequencing/timing has a new follow up finally: >>=20 >> = https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch/2022-December/000313.html >>=20 >> (Nothing about this changes the armv7 status.) >=20 > Nope. >=20 > tl;dr: armv6 packages will stop, we'll stop doing -current armv6 = snapshots, we'll move armv6 to > an 'extra' architecture in universe for stable/14. post stable/14 = we'll tear down support for armv6 > in base and later in ports. Ports mention armv6 ~500 times, maybe 1/4 = of them also mention armv7, > and the vast majority of them mark things as broken in some way = (though there are exceptions). >=20 > Warner =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com
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