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Date:      Fri, 12 Apr 1996 10:49:16 +0300 (EET DST)
From:      Narvi <narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee>
To:        Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Cc:        "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>, terry@lambert.org, alk@Think.COM, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Lesstif (motif compatible) package.
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.3.91.960412104438.1803A-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee>
In-Reply-To: <199604120222.TAA00504@phaeton.artisoft.com>

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On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Terry Lambert wrote:

> > One thing people also frequently neglect is that Tk is a *much nicer*
> > environment than Motif!  I can't count the number of times that I've
> > had my interface 98% complete and then run smack into the boundry
> > cases where I've got something I want to represent graphically but
> > none of the available objects are going to do it for me.  I either end
> > up writing my own Motif widget, which is a real pain in the butt and
> > can easily take twice the time it takes me to write the code that USES
> > the damn thing, or I construct an inferior interface that makes a best
> > effort attempt with the existing stuff.  Tk gives me a very nice
> > "canvas" widget which allows me to create very arbitrarily rendered
> > interface objects and bind actions to them just like the higher level
> > objects.  Don't knock this one until you've tried it, seriously!
> 
> I have tried it.
> 
> The problem is that new widgets are a bad idea, in general.  "Compatible
> with extensions" is a bad thing, and all you really succeed in doing
> is violating style guidelines.
> 
> In theory, your users are trained to use programs that conform to
> the style guidelines, not particular programs by name.
> 
> Yes, I know that apps developers want to make their applications
> "value added" so they stand out and aren't just commodity items.
> 
> For a word processor (for instance), IMO, you do this by making
> the spell chack run faster, not by adding "cool colored shadows"
> or "page flipping frobs" different from the ones supported by
> Motif 2.x already.
> 
> 
> > I know, you're now going to come back with the argument that one can
> > trivially write a blah blah blah widget in Motif (probably using the
> > word "virtualize" at least once :-) but that's not the point - I don't
> > WANT to have to write custom frobs for Motif each time I want to
> > display a triangular button or a flipping-page widget or whatever, nor
> > do I want to have to reinvent the generalized canvas widget there.
> 
> Wrongo.  I'm going to say that using custom frobs is bad, and that
> if you need a triangular button, your user interface design is bad.
> If you succeed in creating your little triangle, where in the users
> previous training does the information on how to use it come from?
> 

No. Triangular (and round and square) buttons are all the same. In some 
places the triangular ones should be used (in an application which 
presents the user with a real world like remote control thingy?). What do 
you think the scrollbar buttons have arrows on them? 

I don't think a triangular button makes the usage any harder if it used 
it in a place which wins from it. 

> The name of the game for a software buyer is making users productive,
> not getting "hackerware" with "neat frobs".  A user is most productive
> if they do not need additional training.
> 
> 
> 					Terry Lambert
> 					terry@lambert.org
> ---
> Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
> or previous employers.
> 

	Sander

Eat good food, preserve nature, be nice to all nice people :)





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