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Date:      Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:00:31 +0200
From:      Remko Lodder <remko@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Michelle Sullivan <michelle@sorbs.net>
Cc:        Peter Jeremy <peter@rulingia.com>, "freebsd-security@freebsd.org" <freebsd-security@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: The Stack Clash vulnerability
Message-ID:  <B7E03A51-B133-416E-A523-1739E743B473@FreeBSD.org>
In-Reply-To: <fd64b255-6c47-1ac1-b5df-2edbdc02d550@sorbs.net>
References:  <F9B7242B-ED83-45C5-9196-6FD095AD9497@gvcgroup.com> <CAPyFy2CicxYBZpyy-pHS%2BQ=wTvwhpqi0fOKahEBDqiVe5h084A@mail.gmail.com> <CAPyFy2C4-hKG=hh0=th%2BRDwBzmMUqMqdg4YYZ76WxGS-JLnLBA@mail.gmail.com> <a1c45d20-78f9-e7d7-2f3e-d18c1723c5d5@sorbs.net> <0F042A4B-CB52-47EB-A191-D7617E51789A@FreeBSD.org> <187b2241-510e-20f8-50c6-16b318e22e89@sorbs.net> <20170622222930.GA36405@server.rulingia.com> <fd64b255-6c47-1ac1-b5df-2edbdc02d550@sorbs.net>

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> On 23 Jun 2017, at 01:19, Michelle Sullivan <michelle@sorbs.net> =
wrote:
>=20
> Peter,
>=20
> Peter Jeremy wrote:
>>=20
>> paying someone to provide whatever level of support you want.  With
>> respect to your 9.x servers, no-one is saying you must replace the
>> hardware, just that the FreeBSD Project will not continue to provide
>> you with free support whilst you choose to run 9.x on them.  Note =
that
>>=20
> You mistake me for someone who needs or is asking for support.
>=20
> I already have the proposed patch available to me on my servers, I'm =
not convinced it solves the issue, merely making it a *lot* more =
difficult to exploit, however that was my 'first look' I have a lot more =
to understand and think about and there are many more people of higher =
intelligence looking at it than me.
>=20
> That said, I'm suggesting that given the amount of time this issue has =
been around and that it was supposedly fixed many years ago, that one =
should consider a special case backport for those that are not capable =
of creating their own patches... and before throwing accusations around =
you should consider how many times I have ever suggested that a =
particular bug gets backported...  If you can't be bothered to check, =
this is the first since I started using FreeBSD in 2003.

Okay, lets cool this thread down. There are no accusations in this =
thread, and they are not needed nor welcome either.

I am going to make a general note below, this is not something that is =
aimed at _you_ personally.

My general note is about the policy we maintain to update supported =
systems. Once we are ready with the currently supported branches, it =
might be =E2=80=9Csimple=E2=80=9D for =E2=80=9Csomeone=E2=80=9D (not the =
FreeBSD Security Team) to back port those changes into older -STABLE =
branches. I am stating that we not perse will do that. But if someone =
has time and effort to support such a change, it will be done. People =
like hps@ merge periodically to older branches that are officially no =
longer supported. That does not mean that they cannot do that, but that =
they have an interest in doing so, which is perfectly fine (ofcourse).

So; if the patch is applicable for older branches as well (stable I =
mean), someone needs to find a committer that can vouch for it and also =
import it into the stable branches. He or She has to understand that it =
might cause problems and they need to be investigated by that person in =
that case.

If someone, who is commercially using our Operating System, has an =
urgent need to have this in a -STABLE branch, I am sure that a few bucks =
here and there can make it worth someone=E2=80=99s (free) time to =
support that.

That=E2=80=99s the way it works, we volunteer for this project, and we =
do understand that people are using our product and even in a commercial =
sense where people make a -lot- of money with =E2=80=9Cour=E2=80=9D =
work. That is perfectly fine. But we have to draw a line in what we can =
and will support. We also have families, hobby=E2=80=99s, other work =
that obviously also costs time and generate our income(s). Even with =
that we are happy to work on the project, and thus the =E2=80=9Cproduct=E2=
=80=9D that we ship. But there is a line. There is no more hours in a =
day then 24. We have to devide that in all those regions we are active =
in. That is where the support policy comes in, we accept the fact that =
we maintain and support releases and stable branches after we created =
them. We do that for a limited amount of time, so that we can have a =
good division between new products, and our other activities. So if =
someone wants to keep a committer/programmer active while he could have =
been playing with his kids, it should be worth his/her while (in =
addition to the work he/she already does for the project) and it=E2=80=99s=
 for the committer to decide whether that is indeed worth the while. =
Perhaps a committer is already being payed by someone to do this and he =
or she will just do it =E2=80=9Cfor free=E2=80=9D, then everyone =
benefits and we have to thank the sponsor for that.

So given the above, and now I am responding to your request, I do not =
think we should break our tradition. There are many things that are not =
fixed in older branches, OpenSSL comes to mind, we simply have to make a =
choice in what we can and cannot do, and be open about that. Branches =
that are no longer supported, will not get official fixes anymore. A =
committer is free to do so, with the note that it -might- cost a few =
bucks to get that going.

I hope the above is making it a bit more clear on why we have to draw a =
line somewhere, and what it might take to get it in the STABLE branches. =
It can be done, but you need to find someone who can do that, with =
potential consequences.

Thanks,
Remko

>=20
> --
> Michelle Sullivan
> http://www.mhix.org/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd-security@freebsd.org mailing list
> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to =
"freebsd-security-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"


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