Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 15:51:44 -0500 From: "Isaac (.ike) Levy" <ike@blackskyresearch.net> To: Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com> Cc: Glen Barber <gjb@FreeBSD.org>, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: removing CVS in Handbook Updating and Upgrading chapter Message-ID: <1359319922-4118699.16248077.fr0RKpjZd021871@rs149.luxsci.com> In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1301271232560.9759@wonkity.com> References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1301241510470.86451@wonkity.com> <alpine.GSO.1.10.1301251321400.9389@multics.mit.edu> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1301251154450.5025@wonkity.com> <1359241802-3572135.75152325.fr0QN9mrI032137@rs149.luxsci.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1301261808410.2537@wonkity.com> <1359270722-3962523.11114096.fr0R7BNq4003267@rs149.luxsci.com> <20130127072036.GL1423@glenbarber.us> <1359272102-5757022.21162222.fr0R7YAiH011169@rs149.luxsci.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1301271232560.9759@wonkity.com>
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Warren, I owe you and Glen a drink for dealing with this exasperating = thread. I wouldn't continue if I didn't believe new users first installs are = extremely important, On Jan 27, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Warren Block wrote: > On Sun, 27 Jan 2013, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: >=20 >>>> + ports, cvsup access end-of-lifed Feb 28 >> - great- drop all ports references to cvs/cvsup >>=20 >>>> - source, cvsup deprecated - no end-of-life date set >> - please do not drop the current canonical base/src fetch method from = the handbook! >>=20 >> However, cvsup is still merely deprecated, without a clear canonical = replacement, (per notes in my previous email). >=20 > Understood, but really that is an argument against deprecating CVS, = not removing it from the docs. >=20 >> Therefore, I hope I'm being clearly understood that it's cleaner for = *users* to still fetch *base/src* with cvsup, until: >>=20 >> - canonical src fetch replacement is in place >> - whenever cvsup for base/src has an end-of-life date set, (like = ports does- Feb. 28!) >>=20 >> At that point, it seems rational that the last references to cvsup = can disappear. (The rest of CVS can disappear before that though?) >=20 > Say we leave CVS references in this chapter, and CVS for source goes = away in (for example) six months. Anyone who starts using CVS in that = time will be forced to switch. And they would be justifiably upset, = because they were offered an option that was going away. I can totally agree, all *CVS* verbiage can be removed from the doc. I'm certain I don't have to explain to you that cvs(1) and cvsup/csup(1) = are not at all the same thing. I may be missing your point, but loads = of users have used the cvsup for many many years, but many never really = touched cvs proper. Kill cvs in doc. > My personal feeling is that continuing to suggest CVS for -STABLE or = -CURRENT, even with a deprecation warning, is a disservice to those = users. I can certainly see that point. cusp(1) has a man page, config files, = etc=85 it's pretty self-evident to admins who want to use it. -- However, the one place where people are getting tripped up, is the quick = fetch required before buildworld/buildkernel: I see nothing but benefit leaving one line before the = buildworld/makeworld dance: # csup /usr/share/examples/standard-supfile And one more line after that, "cvsup/csup(1) has been deprecated, and will be end-of-lifed when the = replacement is completed in base" It's a lot simpler than leading them down the SVN setup path, the state = it's in today! > Using CVS is still documented in Appendix A, along with a big = deprecation warning. Noted, for sure. Best, .ike
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