Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:29:09 +0200 From: Mario Hoerich <lists@MHoerich.de> To: Mark Linimon <linimon@lonesome.com> Cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports Message-ID: <20051021212908.GA1384@Pandora.MHoerich.de> In-Reply-To: <20051020200315.GA25164@soaustin.net> References: <20051017212748.GD71766@isis.sigpipe.cz> <790a9fff0510171505i4010cc05yc30f67d459d1a0e4@mail.gmail.com> <20051018010446.GH71766@isis.sigpipe.cz> <20051018011616.GA57969@xor.obsecurity.org> <FC88505D-7FB0-4AF3-821B-BBB88B0E82C7@softweyr.com> <20051018153752.GB11790@soaustin.net> <20051018160725.GB87664@isis.sigpipe.cz> <20051018162907.GB14192@soaustin.net> <20051019214018.GA5180@isis.sigpipe.cz> <20051020200315.GA25164@soaustin.net>
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# Mark Linimon:
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 11:40:18PM +0200, Roman Neuhauser wrote:
[ Locating ports when you don't know the spelling ]
> > Also, another variable, e. g. KEYWORDS, could be used.
Personally, I doubt this'd do much good. With generic keywords
(like "mp3" or "video") a search yields too many hits rather fast,
whereas people are quite likely to outright miss more specific terms.
Besides, every port maintainer probably has his/her very own idea
how to properly set KEYWORDS, so that i.e. "mp3 player" hits
amaroK and juk, but misses xmms. Synchronizing this sure seems
like a can of worms to me.
[ "show me the ports that have something to do with the Internet" ]
> >
> > What are you missing from make search cat=net ? (I'm not suggesting
> > you don't have valid complaints, I'd like to learn about them.)
A man-page. Or at least a proper help.
| $ make search
| The search target requires a keyword parameter or name parameter,
| e.g.: "make search key=somekeyword"
| or "make search name=somekeyword"
doesn't exactly tell me about cat= or the difference between
key= and name=.
Other than that: a less non-standard syntax. I'd highly favor
portsearch [-c<cat>] (-k<key> | <name>).
> Well, there _are_ a few Internet-related ports in net-mgmt, wwww, ...
This applies to quite a lot of ports, I think. See xmms, for example.
It took me quite a while to realize the 54 xmms-$foo ports in audio
didn't include xmms itself. I finally located it via LIB_DEPENDS.
> > I don't think I am. I'm pointing out a chicken-and-egg condition
> > present in your proposal.
>
> I don't think there is any such thing. People install portugprade and
> cvsup without searching for them. They, and other, tools are well-known.
> Many more ports (in fact the majority) are not. So if you create some
> kind of port-browser tool like portmanager, people can still install that.
I'd favor a set of tools, a library and an ncurses frontend *in base*.
The current set
* portmanager
* port{up,down}grade
* portversion
* portsnap
* portsman
* pkg_{delete,remove}
* pkg_{add,install}
* pkg_info
* pkg_{cut,rm}leaves
* cvsup (what happened to csup btw?)
* make search
* make [fetch]index
isn't exactly consistent in either naming or behavior and there's
probably quite a couple of reinvented wheels inside. The ports
collection being one of the most visible features of FreeBSD, I
think this is bad.
Oh, I'd like my bikeshed blue with dark green stripes, btw.
> Now, instead of all this email debate, a few days ago I talked Edwin
> Groothius into implementing a test idea about how to break up the
> existing category list on http://www.FreeBSD.org/ports/ into logical
> groups. It's inadequate but a) it's better than the flat space and b)
> it's actual code rather than just talk. I will note that there has
> been _zero_ feedback on this change, pro or con.
The thought is actually quite nice, but the logical groups aren't
disjoint on any count. The "ports for end-users" contain plenty
of ports for devs (e.g. audio/p5-Filesys-Virtual-DAAP), whereas
many actual end-user ports (e.g. Firefox) are elsewhere.
So essentially, it doesn't really help (me).
If you're serious about improving the browseability, then the only
real way _I_ can see is to separate applications from libraries and
$lang-ports. Fwiw, I'm aware this implies literally thousands of
repocopys, and that I'm most likely not the one doing them or
dealing with the fallout. It might still be worth consideration
as a long term plan, though.
Regards,
Mario
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