Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:13:12 -0500 From: Tim Tsai <tim@futuresouth.com> To: John Oram <norami@unlimited.net> Cc: dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com, Jeff LeBlanc <Jeff.Leblanc@central.sun.com>, chad@DCFinc.com, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: i-opener shipping Message-ID: <20000413221312.A20933@futuresouth.com> In-Reply-To: <38F65D33.605397C6@unlimited.net> References: <libSDtMail.200004130801.27905.leblancj@bast> <0004131027260U.00722@loki.dyn.ez-ip.net> <38F65D33.605397C6@unlimited.net>
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There is NO margin. Netpliance is taking a loss on the hardware and making it up on the service and ultimately the value of the subscriber base. I haven't worked actively in embedded systems arena for a year or so but I am pretty sure you still can't build the equivalent of I-Opener for $99 - in any practical volume. The passive color LCD itself would cost the majority, if not all, of the $99. I'd love to be proven wrong but hardware prices haven't come down THAT much. Tim On Thu, Apr 13, 2000 at 04:50:11PM -0700, John Oram wrote: > Below are comments from a friend who works for a Siicon Valley computer > manufacturer. They may be useful when thinking about selling inexpensive > open source hardware and remainig in business because your making a > profit. > > John Oram > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > John: > > i-Opener is an interesting business model for sure. They clearly > wanted to set up a business case (create a market) that provided low > cost hardware to promote an on going service. The money would be > made on the monthly service fees and not the hardware purchase. A > low upfront cost (entry point) that was not very complicated to use, > easy to setup and maintain. All the features and extras would be in > the service for the most part. Like DVD without the MPEG Board > - Soft MPEG. > > Looks like what happened is they developed interest in low cost > hardware and a service no one really wants at the current price > offering. A VT920 Smart Term that can be programmed. Looks like > they can sell the hardware and not sell the service at the current > price. The question is margin? > > If the hardware has any margin in it, they may have to switch sides > and look at making some money off the hardware and give up (or lower > the cost) on the service. > > If they did this they would control the market and keep out the > competition. They could license and distribute the product alone. > ONLY if a margin does exist. If the hardware is a loss leader > (at this price point) it will get more sticky and ugly. > > Also it is not an open source system with respect to the BIOS. And > the BIOS is all your really getting. You would take the BIOS (and > BOOT ROM) and remove the existing turnkey application. It than > becomes a modified (and turns it to your) Open source application. > The real draw here is the $99 complete turnkey computer system > hardware package. For the price of a good sound card you get a > fully developed and integrated hardware package with installed OS. > > You have the ability (to some extent) to use many of the off the > shelf Adonis because of the standard buss (I'm using this term very > loosely) or hardware interface. Truth of the matter is; If you > change out the IDE hard disk for one that is not supported by the > BIOS and your in the dumper. BOOTP on ROM has a very limited space > for the boot strap loader. Lookup tables take up a lot of space > that is not available. We do four hard disks in the ST line and > we only have 11 bytes left in the Flash for the current BIOS. If > they do not publish the vector tables for this system it is not open > source on the BIOS. > > Everything being standard and generic means all the added value will > be in the software you provide after the existing application has been > removed. > > That is unless you just intend to sell the hardware with no added value. > If you add value and expect to add some expense to the core product; > What will it be revalued at? > > If you start getting close to a $300 cost to the end user you will > be competing with e-systems. The e-system will be the better value. > > How much margin do you figure is in the $99? > > Tom > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > dreamwvr wrote: > > > > hi, > > thanks Jeff! it seems that a co that would change the > > hardware to deter development with the exception of their own os. as a > > planned move to prevent innovation by others should expect people to find > > more acceptable route. since a traceroute of the from co in taiwan would > > allow many to access the hardware without monopoly occuring this is > > very acceptable IMHO. my co would love to distribute but the amount > > of volume required 'most likely' will deter this.. Seems like this is a very > > good solution for all open source oses. From experience in Linux since i > > am fascinated with picoBSD but have yet get it to usable quality > > for my co use. admittedly i am new to pico so this is no surprise .. > > but do use OpenBSD so not entirely lost. oh well my plan was to > > evaluate in the co lab. but until i can get a reliable open sourceable > > supply am hooped. really do not consider the co that originally sold > > this with their services a open co since their move. apparently they are > > reconsidering so you never know but still if it is done once it could > > just as easily occur again. Solution? go direct to the manufacturer > > and buy enough units to make it worthwhile for them. then it remains > > open as their is a business case for them. > > Best Regards, > > dreamwvr@dreamwvr.com > > On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, Jeff LeBlanc wrote: > > > sounds like good thinking to me. ...and i thought the mention of this quite > > > appropriate for posting on the list. i just wanted to express my support. > > > > > > have a good day, guys. > > > > > > -J > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message
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