Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:12:05 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com> To: Noriyuki Soda <soda@sra.co.jp> Cc: dfr@nlsystems.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/pci pcisupport.c Message-ID: <67065.926554325@zippy.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 May 1999 08:17:52 %2B0900." <199905122317.IAA00977@srapc342.sra.co.jp>
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> This doesn't answer my wondering. The core members can safely postpone > the decision after Usenix, because all of core members must know that > both new-bus people and newconfig people will come to Freenix track. I'm not sure this was adequate reason to postpone the decision either, and like I said, Peter had the time to do it and it wasn't clear when he was next going to have the time again. In a volunteer project, you have to sometimes move when people are ready to move or you'll miss your window of opportunity. > Quite interesting. This means that FreeBSD doesn't choose technology > by it's design, but by which spokes loudly. I definitely say that this > is worst way to design software. No, it doesn't mean that, it means that assessing technology isn't JUST a question of looking at code since code, by its very nature, changes rapidly - if you cannot see that then this conversation is likely to be just about as productive as arguing with a first-year high school student on the subject. Evaluating technology is a question of deciding which code is both superior AND has the best longevity, longevity being a more difficult equation which combines the history of the developers involved and how effective your communications with them are. In this case, I don't believe communications are effective and that kills newconfig just as thoroughly as having the code be a total mess; I think I've pointed this out several times now. > Have you ever asked to newconfig people? > No, no one of core members who takes charge of kernel part contacted > to newconfig people, ever. As I told you before, I didn't even know you *existed* until I saw your paper. How am I supposed to contact you guys if I don't even know you're alive? There are presently over 5 billion people on the planet and I can't call each and every one of them regularly to find out whether or not they're working on FreeBSD. :) The time for you guys to have contacted core (or, even better, -hackers) to let us know of your existence was back when you started your project, not at the point where you were so far along that papers were being published. Don't expect people to contact YOU since, as I've said, people generally don't even know you exist until you tell them. > Note that there are core members who supports new-bus, everytime this > issue is raised between core, new-bus people can reply about this, > newconfig people never have that chance. You don't "get" chances in this business, you MAKE chances. :) > Can you write Japanese ? > If no, why do you blame the one who cannot write English. I'm very fortunate to have had my mother tongue chosen as the defacto international language of computer science and don't think I don't realize my degree of good fortune. Had Japanese or French been chosen instead, you may rest assured that I'd have put the time necessary into learning those languages as well. I'm certainly capable of learning a foreign language when and if it's necessary, don't think I'm an english bigot here or anything (sprechen Sie Deutsch? :), but I'm also a realist and if the prevailing language of communication is language X then I expect everyone concerned to just learn language X and I don't particularly care how difficult it is, Just Do It and don't whine about it is my motto. To be more specific, I expect you and anyone else in Japan who wishes to communicate with an international audience to learn english and, should I ever live in Japan and need to speak frequently with Japanese speakers, you may rest assured that I'll learn Japanese, however hard that process might be. We're supposed to be intelligent people here and if we can't learn to speak others languages if and as necessary then maybe we're not as intelligent as we think. :-) > Please point out the "general annoyance from Japan". I have seen a lot of arguing about technical merits and decisions made by the core team, but I have yet to see any constructive comments about fixing the communication problems which led to this decision. Focusing on the negative and not the positive counts for "general annoyance" in my book since people generally don't do that unless they're annoyed. I'm sure your command of english is not so deficient that you're unable to make positive suggestions - I thought Japanese people had more cultural difficulty in saying "no" than in saying "yes" :-) > Then you don't know about language barrier. > Please learn Japanese, and write/speak Japanese, then you can find why > the voice from Japan is not enough. See above. > Actually Japan is the country where FreeBSD most succeeded. > There are over 50 books in Japan which includes "FreeBSD" in it's title. > This is not joke. I know, I've been to Akihabara and I've even taken pictures of the books in question (http://www.freebsd.org/~jkh/japan/report/dayfive-books.jpg). Don't think that I underestimate the importance of the Japanese market - if I did, do you think I'd be taking time out *right before USENIX* to fly over there for 3 days and Jet lag myself all to hell? I don't think so. :-) > Why don't ask Japanese people, then? > Why don't you going to learn Japanese? I'll be there shortly to do the first. The second is unnecessary since, as I've already pointed out, the international language here for this kind of communication is english, not Japanese. This is not restricted to computer science, by the way, so it's not like we're being uniquely unfair about this. If you want to be an aircraft pilot, for instance, you're back to the very same problem. The international language of aviation is english, and even when you're flying in Japan, you can speak Japanese to the tower all you like, and sometimes they'll even answer in Japanese, but you'll still get written up in the safety report for endangering all the other pilots in the air who NEEDED to hear and understand what you were saying. If you're saying in Japanese to the tower that you're on final approach to runway 25 and the Mexico Airlines flight behind you, who happens to think that HE has clearance for the same runway and can't understand your radio traffic, is going for the same thing, he's got no chance to say "wait, he's on final for 25 right? That's MY runway! Crap, I'm about to run into this guy!" The fact that your native languages might be Japanese and Spanish, respectively, makes no difference. You have to find some common ground if you want to prevent accidents, and in both general aviation and these mailing lists, that common ground is English. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
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