Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:44:58 -0500 From: Jon Radel <jon@radel.com> To: Ivan Petrushev <ivanatora@gmail.com> Cc: freebsd-pf@freebsd.org Subject: OT Spam technology was: Re: The "Military, Industrial Complex" is no more -- The Hidden Massive Racial Discrimination in America against Whites Message-ID: <4983207A.3070502@radel.com> In-Reply-To: <d39744a20901300145y3ac4c3tb8edf6bc3273512@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090129220509.LWGL12540.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <d39744a20901292211w55e2ebf9g98170f3ed4f84c31@mail.gmail.com> <4982A23B.6020809@radel.com> <d39744a20901300145y3ac4c3tb8edf6bc3273512@mail.gmail.com>
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This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030101070207040001020507 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ivan Petrushev wrote: > So there is not spam protection or whatever installed on the software > servicing the mail list? Abuse control? User registration approval? > > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Jon Radel <jon@radel.com> wrote: >> Ivan Petrushev wrote: >>> Excuse me, why such a spam comes to the members of freebsd-pf mail list? >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Lawrence Auster >>> <lawrence.auster@att.net> wrote: >> ....crap trimmed.... >> >> Oh, for heaven's sake get a grip. DO NOT SEND THE WHOLE LOAD OF CRAP TO >> ALL OF US YET AGAIN! At very least, learn to trim. >> >> As to your question: Because somebody sent it to the mailing list. >> Doh! There are a lot of these going to many technical mailing lists, >> many with forged return addresses. >> >> --Jon Radel >> >> Hmmmm...that's about as useful as my asking why you were allowed to forward personal mail I sent to you on to this mailing list. (Heads up: many people consider that rather rude.) I'm not sure you've sufficiently thought through how a spam filter works. Suffice it to say, until there is some pattern of abuse established, there's not much an automated filter can do. You need some word choice, pattern of words, formatting style, source address, header, phone number, URL and/or some combination of these which has in some fashion been determined to be "bad". Consequently, the first couple examples of a soberly worded political statement really aren't going to trigger any automated spam filtering, no matter how far out on whichever fringe that statement might be to humans who can actually comprehend what it says. "Abuse control" Beautiful words. Describe what you mean with enough precision so that somebody can program something up that a brutally literal minded computer can follow. "User registration approval" Pray tell, unless the list managers pay for intensive background investigations for all new subscribers, how are they to reliably tell the difference between somebody who plans to send as many screeds as possible before being cut off and some PF fan boy just dying to drone on about why Cisco SIP fixup makes ASAs so inferior to what PF does? About the only way to keep this from ever happening is to have a moderated list which depends on security much stronger than the return address of the moderator. (This particular "set" of messages has been seen recently on some announcement lists where the sender simply forged the return address of a moderator.) However, a moderated list has costs of its own, requiring much volunteer or paid labor and, unless you pay for a staff of 6+, generally involving what can be substantial delays. All that said, there are various heuristic methods in play to increase the cost and reduce the probability of spamming on the FreeBSD mailing lists, which is why the noise from spam is so low. Lower even than the noise from people writing about the spam. And now I've finished adding noise. Respond privately, please, if you for whatever reason feel you have more to add to this discussion. And refrain, if you don't mind, from forwarding my personal mail to a mailing list. --Jon Radel --------------ms030101070207040001020507 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJMTCC AvMwggJcoAMCAQICEG2TkfF/93Sx9LCftry1D3YwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UE BhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMT I1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA4MDMyNDE2NTkyMVoX DTA5MDMyNDE2NTkyMVowXjEOMAwGA1UEBBMFUmFkZWwxEzARBgNVBCoTCkpvbiBUaG9tYXMx GTAXBgNVBAMTEEpvbiBUaG9tYXMgUmFkZWwxHDAaBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWDWpvbkByYWRlbC5j b20wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDPdCxQufreHHDAI9YN2axx87Rf 0TK1PYFMlJHi4y1ebdAMPqR6M44bz+3m8YnKn1bmIf7dWyisWyAIQYCOhW/2r66o4MdF9qJ9 z5uhMy+28zaJP/Glg64C3WPM0VfveCgvu+ApEyf2JDbjc/hUomw8KpppgOcn1wX6PZGbhHVv eAvDTWJ0ugqo08Ny6GR0bsGvePmxdWSQq+0aGTHqA1I2EozJBZ8W5xlUtKe22j56i1Uw1ujk Rlosdu2PTs8QOY1OUHuLPnEV9EWtYF7g6bXDUDsJxypXZy9qTipPplYXjdWgkLVRvezri+BN kgin8UKhKLQ99vS25zrMFKu80g31AgMBAAGjKjAoMBgGA1UdEQQRMA+BDWpvbkByYWRlbC5j b20wDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFAAOBgQAR4u9o4CFvztyo0sZb3tCQIWYb 5U4jW9da3goVwWIkMz+qeCb2kiTQfsSmOdF9YJ8VTRdYW0l0fQbqL5JikVhaYeX85cpqZ3iA /PPJpfPtJw8g5jJOAROVAvxydMZXQYxyIBMV4HNG3qir44YnyfmJXkBtRFYWdxBc7bQpoZSZ jzCCAvMwggJcoAMCAQICEG2TkfF/93Sx9LCftry1D3YwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkG A1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNV BAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA4MDMyNDE2NTky MVoXDTA5MDMyNDE2NTkyMVowXjEOMAwGA1UEBBMFUmFkZWwxEzARBgNVBCoTCkpvbiBUaG9t YXMxGTAXBgNVBAMTEEpvbiBUaG9tYXMgUmFkZWwxHDAaBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWDWpvbkByYWRl bC5jb20wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDPdCxQufreHHDAI9YN2axx 87Rf0TK1PYFMlJHi4y1ebdAMPqR6M44bz+3m8YnKn1bmIf7dWyisWyAIQYCOhW/2r66o4MdF 9qJ9z5uhMy+28zaJP/Glg64C3WPM0VfveCgvu+ApEyf2JDbjc/hUomw8KpppgOcn1wX6PZGb hHVveAvDTWJ0ugqo08Ny6GR0bsGvePmxdWSQq+0aGTHqA1I2EozJBZ8W5xlUtKe22j56i1Uw 1ujkRlosdu2PTs8QOY1OUHuLPnEV9EWtYF7g6bXDUDsJxypXZy9qTipPplYXjdWgkLVRvezr i+BNkgin8UKhKLQ99vS25zrMFKu80g31AgMBAAGjKjAoMBgGA1UdEQQRMA+BDWpvbkByYWRl bC5jb20wDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFAAOBgQAR4u9o4CFvztyo0sZb3tCQ IWYb5U4jW9da3goVwWIkMz+qeCb2kiTQfsSmOdF9YJ8VTRdYW0l0fQbqL5JikVhaYeX85cpq Z3iA/PPJpfPtJw8g5jJOAROVAvxydMZXQYxyIBMV4HNG3qir44YnyfmJXkBtRFYWdxBc7bQp oZSZjzCCAz8wggKooAMCAQICAQ0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgdExCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMRUw EwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNVBAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEaMBgGA1UEChMRVGhh d3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcxKDAmBgNVBAsTH0NlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gU2VydmljZXMgRGl2aXNp b24xJDAiBgNVBAMTG1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBDQTErMCkGCSqGSIb3DQEJ ARYccGVyc29uYWwtZnJlZW1haWxAdGhhd3RlLmNvbTAeFw0wMzA3MTcwMDAwMDBaFw0xMzA3 MTYyMzU5NTlaMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAo UHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBD QTCBnzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAwgYkCgYEAxKY8VXNV+065yplaHmjAdQRwnd/p/6Me 7L3N9VvyGna9fww6YfK/Uc4B1OVQCjDXAmNaLIkVcI7dyfArhVqqP3FWy688Cwfn8R+RNiQq E88r1fOCdz0Dviv+uxg+B79AgAJk16emu59l0cUqVIUPSAR/p7bRPGEEQB5kGXJgt/sCAwEA AaOBlDCBkTASBgNVHRMBAf8ECDAGAQH/AgEAMEMGA1UdHwQ8MDowOKA2oDSGMmh0dHA6Ly9j cmwudGhhd3RlLmNvbS9UaGF3dGVQZXJzb25hbEZyZWVtYWlsQ0EuY3JsMAsGA1UdDwQEAwIB BjApBgNVHREEIjAgpB4wHDEaMBgGA1UEAxMRUHJpdmF0ZUxhYmVsMi0xMzgwDQYJKoZIhvcN AQEFBQADgYEASIzRUIPqCy7MDaNmrGcPf6+svsIXoUOWlJ1/TCG4+DYfqi2fNi/A9BxQIJNw PP2t4WFiw9k6GX6EsZkbAMUaC4J0niVQlGLH2ydxVyWN3amcOY6MIE9lX5Xa9/eH1sYITq72 6jTlEBpbNU1341YheILcIRk13iSx0x1G/11fZU8xggNkMIIDYAIBATB2MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNU aGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQQIQbZOR8X/3dLH0sJ+2vLUPdjAJ BgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBwzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEP Fw0wOTAxMzAxNTQ0NThaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBQGX74G9lhdVprfKg9Y34jyK9339DBS BgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xRTBDMAoGCCqGSIb3DQMHMA4GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgIAgDANBggqhkiG9w0D AgIBQDAHBgUrDgMCBzANBggqhkiG9w0DAgIBKDCBhQYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMXgwdjBiMQswCQYD VQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UE AxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECEG2TkfF/93Sx9LCftry1 D3YwgYcGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMXigdjBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3Rl IENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVt YWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECEG2TkfF/93Sx9LCftry1D3YwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAznhX hHihlsvL9Nzqc+EgU2Xe03pwylOESraMTMM2Bm/gFmdeLL2SpjAD7z5BJooWORZWyj20V94v hkZ6MqRuivFAvuLMp9Uu8n55Nl0z3UJfdm8v7RKKGZjoFVO51X7HVk9ppiOHLFXCPh0WT05E C+LyRxWmLBV9zHInHYY+8g3UBLWB8Yd8DqkE/5CF5RXuLKJYpvlJfY6KQkZa5kkVjBHiTHbS UU2PXjvTJIo3PLXhtKa5H0QFAc272pqTiiwLbnzrG0u/ZLV6a8Y8/Pv8DliFblRONv7eWGRU kvl3+dYg9cxH1FA7uMW3F80wa3JXrNzKNylTQuSb14MIvNLt8AAAAAAAAA== --------------ms030101070207040001020507--
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