Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:54:15 -0800 From: Garrett Cooper <youshi10@u.washington.edu> To: =?UTF-8?B?6Z+T5a625qiZIEJpbGwgSGFja2Vy?= <askbill@conducive.net> Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Wiki for discussing P35/IHC9(R)/SATA issues set up Message-ID: <47301DA7.4060608@u.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <47301A4A.2030807@conducive.net> References: <472D56A1.7070206@gmail.com> <200711041119.45971.jrh29@alumni.cwru.edu> <472DD231.9030501@gmail.com> <472E67CC.9040201@delphij.net> <472E4FF0.3080801@gmail.com> <472EB211.7050001@delphij.net> <472EEADF.1000008@gmail.com> <472F466E.8050405@delphij.net> <472F5846.1020304@gmail.com> <472F5D9A.9050900@delphij.net> <op.t1b08cc6ufp0mi@localhost> <472F6773.3080801@delphij.net> <op.t1b121p9ufp0mi@localhost> <472F6B02.2030801@delphij.net> <op.t1b37ronufp0mi@localhost> <472F7C05.6050000@conducive.net> <472FCE60.9070806@gmail.com> <47301A4A.2030807@conducive.net>
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韓家標 Bill Hacker wrote: > > Versteh. But *I* get grumpy when it is *so* easy to 'close the door > firmly' by slapping in last-year's scrap IDE CD or a diferent SATA > device, and *then* post with a great deal more certainty that those > options produced this or that difference. Or NOT. Ergo the problem > is more clearly ID'ed - or reconfirmed - each time. > > Surprises DO happen. Remember the CMD-640 ATA controller? Those folks > call themselves SiliconImage nowadays, but it was the tier-one > Japanese firm that 'foundered' the silicon. I hated that PATA controller with a passion :(... > ACK - and developers of software very seldom have access to even the > tiniest fraction of the hardware that the community at large have > their hands on. As you mention below though, that comes down to funds vs time. > WTF - as predominantly a 'hardware' R&D guy, I personally seldom have > fewer than a dozen MB within arm's length, though rarely are more than > 2 or 3 'current' items. Had a lot more before shipping a chunk of it > off to developers. > > So - yes - what I am asking is or *should be* redundant work and may > sound useless repitition at first. > > But it places a very light load on 'many hands' of experimenters - > most of whom cannot code anyway, but *can* attach a cable - so as to > reduce the load on 'few hands' of developers. Very few. What would be better is creating a series of custom tester boards or interface mechanisms so that plugging and unplugging all of this crap would be more painless, safe, process-based, and simple, but then again I guess I'm dreaming of solutions :\. > Not as efficient as an aircraft hangar full of every make of parts > known with all developers in the same building, but placing the > 'extra' work on hundreds of testers vs few developers is the only tool > we can afford to shorten the time needed to solve the problem before > the parts go obsolete for a NEW set of challenges. > > On which score we ARE falling behind... Accelerating pace of 'new' is > the nature of the market. Indeed. The AMD, Intel, and nVidia camps are all decreasing their product ramp-up times, thus making it harder for us to keep up. But keep up we need to do... And the difficulties will only get 'better'. > Another reason is that while it is very inexpensive to source all > manner of MB & controllers here in HKG, to name one (cheaper than in > Taipei by far..) it is deucedly expensive in time & money to gin up > proper customs paperwork, ship them to, for example the EC, and manage > their incoming VAT w/o harm to the recipient. > > The VAT alone on a 'free' box of hardware can cause serious heatburn > on a student budget, 'coz the national authority takes a dim view of > even 'bona fide gift'. Yes. I know after sending a few items to a fellow FreeBSD'er in Amsterdam. The whole percentage taxing is ridiculous. > IOW - a 'donation' across a national border just doesn't fly well. > > And the key developers are not only all over the world now, some of > the best of the team are in countries that may be quite modern - but > do NOT have good, cheap, *low tax* parts markets. > > 'nuff said... > > Bill
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