Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2024 15:20:45 -0700 From: Alan Somers <asomers@freebsd.org> To: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk>, Kristof Provost <kp@freebsd.org>, George Mitchell <george+freebsd@m5p.com>, FreeBSD Hackers <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: The Case for Rust (in the base system) Message-ID: <CAOtMX2jtuAKg21ODwLVg4DMjTU_cDgtCFrLbrKhuT6F5_T10LA@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfr9SoCJkyv6i7yVVSfaiQ=Fnw_QQniO1NpnV1F0d7G6OQ@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAOtMX2hAUiWdGPtpaCJLPZB%2Bj2yzNw5DSjUmkwTi%2B%2BmyemehCA@mail.gmail.com> <1673801705774097@mail.yandex.ru> <CANCZdfpqWgvV_RCvVO_pvTrmajQFspW%2BQ9TM_Ok3JrXZAfeAfA@mail.gmail.com> <ef4ad207-5899-42b6-8728-bc46f1417e9e@antonovs.family> <202401210751.40L7pWEF011188@critter.freebsd.dk> <40bc1694-ee00-431b-866e-396e9d5c07a2@m5p.com> <CAOtMX2hppfdu5ypDdGpfw_QDcd1rwJEeyVfSk9ogFEm7CiV6Kw@mail.gmail.com> <202401211626.40LGQDim013134@critter.freebsd.dk> <4EF67303-A995-457A-990F-A4972C23EA80@FreeBSD.org> <CANCZdfo_MU4yo_4dvvTB%2BQf3JFT6EVEYZ4cmFHa%2BEJEjs_1crA@mail.gmail.com> <202401212013.40LKD1a7095506@critter.freebsd.dk> <CAOtMX2jvdzB4o%2BsjJ6CDk4tYngp15djZ3_hK99jn_JFnNJreNw@mail.gmail.com> <CANCZdfr9SoCJkyv6i7yVVSfaiQ=Fnw_QQniO1NpnV1F0d7G6OQ@mail.gmail.com>
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On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 2:32=E2=80=AFPM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2024, 2:04=E2=80=AFPM Alan Somers <asomers@freebsd.org> w= rote: >> >> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 1:13=E2=80=AFPM Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freeb= sd.dk> wrote: >> > >> > -------- >> > Warner Losh writes: >> > >> > > Even if all the cool kids are doing it, it doesn't mean the cool kid= s are >> > > wrong. We should not reject the hypothesis on that basis alone. >> > >> > I certainly didn't mean to imply that, my point about cvsup was precis= ely >> > that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. >> > >> > The only comment I want to add, is that the test-cases should be >> > expressed such that, if/when we find out Rust wasn't God's gift to >> > programmers, we can reimplement the tool which interprets them in >> > some hot-language-du-jour, without having to rewrite all the actual >> > test-cases. >> >> I think imp and phk are after different things. phk wants a tool >> written in Rust that be installed from ports and interpret test cases >> defined in src. That's similar to the fsx tests, which I'm planning >> to add to src once the package builder catches up. But imp wants test >> cases that are actually written in Rust and which live in src, to test >> his external toolchain proposal. That's very different. It's an >> unusual requirement. Off hand I can't think of many subsystems that >> are a good match for a test suite like that. ypclnt(3) might be one. > > > Hmmm, I'd kinda thought you wanted to rewrite fsx in rust and use it > as part of the kyua tests, much like io.cc simulates some of the things > fsx does. I didn't care about the details of whether it was a test case, > used by test cases or interprets the results. It really doesn't matter to > me beyond (a) it's used to test the system or some aspect of the system > and (b) it's written in rust and compiled when we generally compile the > other tests and test-like things. I thought this was exactly what you wer= e > proposing as one of the things that would show how writing it in rust > would give us some benefit. > > But to be honest, I'm agnostic about how the 'build rust things in base > via external toolchain' stuff is used for. The important thing is that so= mething > non-critical be selected as a pilot project to see whether the hassles of > adding this, maintaining the port, and the resulting better outcomes > because it's in rust. I proposed something related to testing (the (a) ab= ove) > because that's well segregated from the rest of the system and it's > something that could be redone, in all likelihood, in some other language > should the need arise. I had thought fsx and fsx-rs would provide a nice > compare and contrast study if they gave us approximately the same things. > > And besides, it's just my opinion of what project would be both useful an= d produce > good data about using Rust in the base. I'm sure others could be proposed > as well. > > Warner The fsx rewrite is already complete and it's in ports. I don't see any benefit to bringing it back to src other than to test your external toolchain proposal. Do you still want to do it?
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