Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 15:13:23 -0400 From: Jerry <jerry@seibercom.net> To: User questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Goodbye Message-ID: <20210711151323.00004dbd@seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: <CAFbbPugTBBRyxoKt70ZRHJ_cm6t4oGgEr1%2BgJfoVD9q2C=K_Mw@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAKy4t%2B-1sKV8mTfcgfb2Vqo=h28ns8CtsTzyKPSVBU2W0qreLg@mail.gmail.com> <CAFbbPugTBBRyxoKt70ZRHJ_cm6t4oGgEr1%2BgJfoVD9q2C=K_Mw@mail.gmail.com>
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--Sig_/RpSae4yHFklxAzIxijmGdDn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 11 Jul 2021 12:54:30 -0400, Paul Procacci stated: >On Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 1:58 PM David Raver <david.raver@gmail.com> >wrote: > >> To Whom It May Concern: >> >> This is not merely a question, it's mostly a complaint. Let me >> explain. >> >> Some time ago I started a (c++) project which I wanted to make as >> general (in an OS sense) as possible. >> Meaning: the same source (with as little of ifdefs as possible) >> should compile, link and run on as many operating systems as >> possible. >> >> So... out of the BSD family I chose FreeBSD as I'd read/heard that >> it had been... well... the best. >> >> I installed it into a VirtualBox. Can't remember how, but it was >> what a developer needed: a graphical environment, everything easily >> accessible. As it should be. >> >> Then the project was put aside for quite some time until a couple of >> months ago when it's extensive generalization was brought to a stage >> when it worked on Linux, MacOS and Windows, it's primary systems. >> >> So, I fired a VirtualBox up again meaning to try to build it on >> FreeBSD. Sadly it didn't work. Not that it didn't compile. It did. >> The linker failed, though. >> Researching why, I came to a conclusion that it's version didn't >> support what I'd needed. OK, I said, an upgrade should fix that. >> Not being small-time I decided to not only upgrade the c++ (g++) >> development platform, but rather the whole operating system. I >> looked up (on Google) how to do it and... I did it. I mean I started >> the upgrade. >> >> Pay attention now because here it's where it all starts: the upgrade >> failed in such a way that not only the c++ development platform was >> unusable, but the OS refused to boot. All I'd seen had been a black >> screen. >> >> Steam started to blow out of my ears, but I still kept it together. >> OK, I said, maybe the upgrade wasn't a good decision anyway. >> Let's start from scratch and install the latest version (13) which >> will automatically solve all of the problems. >> Fired up a VirtualBox, created a new machine using the downloaded ( >> https://www.freebsd.org/where/) file. Booted up with the option 1 >> (multiple >> users, as it should be the usual case, right?). >> Instead of the expected GUI and some dialogs creating the user >> account I was met with the console demanding username and password >> from me. What?!? The first thing that went through my mind was that >> if this had been the case with a certain Microsoft's operating >> system, it surely wouldn't have had the market share it has today. >> >> After a little research (man, I love the small print!) on your page >> I came up with the account data and logged in. OK, I said, this >> isn't going to do. I need a GUI and some developer tools. Let's >> install that. But, the OS said, you can't do that unless you're a >> superuser. No problem. Tried sudo as I'm used to from Linux. Nope. >> Tried su. It said: "Sorry". What?!? >> Google helped again: in order to do that one must choose option 2 >> while booting. Fsck!?! Obviously one must have a BSD degree to use a >> computer. OK, after a restart (and successful su) I googled about >> installing a GUI (KDE to be exact). Being unpleasantly surprised >> that, instead of a oneliner, one has to buy a new keyboard with an >> extended life expectancy in order to type an equivalent of Tolstoy's >> War and Peace. Man, how hard is it to put something in a shell >> script?!? >> >> Before embarking on such an enterprise, I read some more small print >> and found out that, before that, one has to install X (probably >> demanding another fresh keyboard). And before that one has to >> install something else still. >> Can't remember what because I shut the OS down and hit a couple of >> dels removing everything even remotely related to FreeBSD from my >> computer. >> >> So, before yous geniuses decide to make an OS even remotely usable >> so that an average developer doesn't need to have a doctorate of >> General BSDvity Theory in order to use it, it's Goodby from me >> Argentina. >> >> D. > >It's okay to fail and blame your failure on your lack of abilities. >No one here will hold that against you. > >FreeBSD is superior to most others in many many ways. >Surely it has some warts, but they are far and few between. > >I've been saying this for 3 decades now and I continue to say it. >FreeBSD is an administrators' OS at heart. >Whether true or not at this point in time is mostly irrelevant to me >only that I still say it. > >YOU failed to conquer it; that's no one else's fault but your own. > >~Paul I have never considered a PC or an OS something to be conquered. The PC runs an OS. The OS's job, and its various applications, sole purpose is to make my life easier. Yoda's most memorable line, "Do Or Do Not. There Is No Try" is most apropos here. I don't care who the author is or what the cost is, if it doesn't make my job, hobby, or whatever I am employing the OS for more effortless, then it is not very helpful to me. I have found several things that FBSD does that make my life easier and more productive. I have also discovered numerous examples of where it is counterproductive. I have learned the hard way; you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The following bug made FreeBSD 12+ and 13.0 unusable for several users. <https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D237666>. It took over a year to squash that bug. Once upon a time, I would have considered that absurd, now I just think of it as business as usual. I think the OP needs to understand that no single OS is the ultimate answer to his problems. The OP had set his sights way too high. In all honestly, I did sort of the same thing. In my years of using FBSD alongside other OSs, I have mellowed. I have learned that banging my head against a wall only hurts my head. I hope one day after the OP settles in with whatever OS he has determined best suits his needs, he will consider giving FBSD another look. Hopefully, this time with more realistic expectations. And that is my 2=C2=A2. --=20 Jerry --Sig_/RpSae4yHFklxAzIxijmGdDn Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQiOBAEBCAb4FiEELeCiu2K+9VmEYYgTgHBP8gv9FXcFAmDrQtPGGSYAmQGNBF+4 XLcBDACugGY6FgAQjxK3dis7pVaE6Fb4yPpCb4NXprsj3yXXoFmCPbXwitivNxmb ec8elKabvywFSzOy5aZ6R3jeYu4ksLDPrZ6Pli40XRTkmIpGMeGzraRU6PbiQUbn 1DB8mpZSSI7Kcye/CwITTBnEWH9VMEYa+OPqTyl3GaJlbk46Gf3hYKsYVMt6a+SD y6FUIVlhUgj80aZa9JVgI7zLrGPktPE45deNJXF+R0jXUXyDWRuhjPv/wOYUUkdh Z9UhGcLJaQHBGbuOJWC5JI/uHwv6JA3KYC0k4tvKSG+zt1eqjjOYGQ15zIfsPB6d WzKEr0doB2E3YGyGmfPF4Tjxx43CvJGzuOjnQx/372lM+3/fyCESO4quJJmS2GfB UUW0OpP68/zcI9poSQa5Vmql/AnxL0SUY5WWtC8dpUqOlnYWz9+/nPq48WQZue49 XlMXOZILHcJUqKnGnOWVe9o5imP0TNFN09rhYuLAxi0GgudgS84sXoqHFPFyWM6b C+RV/YEAEQEAAbQoR2VyYXJkIEUuIFNlaWJlcnQgPGdlcmFyZEBzZWliZXJjb20u bmV0PokB0QQTAQgAOwIbAwULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgBYhBC3gorti vvVZhGGIE4BwT/IL/RV3BQJfuGKyAhkBAAoJEIBwT/IL/RV39AgL/izMdmr1Qucb hMzTvcRp3bGEyJpNDC1OQ87ZrwjEjjIKeInSo9h05eS7c4Sfr1t4EnhemuH5PyZC N1TZN4aE8BKH//B2ohJl9dC+4Os6kkSbGtZ6WMXvndOHzEmmYGMHNIR2Yyq+ujGm vvbWwKbVUKWpXV2hhhdwGQafSyuWEryQ4dDP5wpDBvLv3VSVoyJsMJPuLDi3v59P ZiJEMuDEPfWVHFU6ZhFi9sP/0b3qNezklzKuKi25PS/dm/300PSwJPoI82hW/MkN 180rAJx2oWU80r7wkhDUHlBqFTAQ13c1/qcXEdF732l0fu/0j3HGYZusamGeY2Yw /ymEOQcadf3xT2at5fDhR8nKQm8kr1YH3X22I7WzoLIKkQcTnRUWqaXo0LRQkFKU zOmwCf6lqCpMCWmliRNls2jwsjscGFI8arLCIfawm8JtsUxeiRWZdC9PTGi/zMFX I27JBPYavFZxx1bPyLzLLsQI8pjP7z2+AxiycGalMWZWgnSJHGB/UbkBjQRfuFy3 AQwA2mcUiW4P7Gy/dSyt/H02g+3E2OL6nuJ9vg3isebMPhTjUQwGdUKF8MLEfR9L rrb866h0VITW2kD60YZziUtY5GgChPgqnFO1ynDDX742RKdUkzEQunXrNxZBeuHw JIazEU5lBTaKrtI+MfkLlD88EBlfQhZnpG7E/wkGOAhmorpTIecAxA07kV5+2XH5 EGYPjceb+kU4k97I7b6V/UeLyd28ude3aMf69OHFAyMHpxZqMEoXaOOLrRF+MuS+ RiB75heLc5TIdv86yZZGYU2o0HnIA6Q9rF3n3xUC2OUTrzHZ3AFFkyERh3CbvUDt vxrbPBNbBs6r1IOdcaDvtwb+c1Ug6lz2AzbldyJWoZunDO4gR2MdXhKAqZLBtQF4 rcDKS6U8KknyMMCPjPhOWXGneCsmT3bY4Qem7uAFepMZIzR0Sj2Bqf8XaRuKE8j2 LwecOKev5bGAkmI3i8D/3d+w5ttFYrag79Ofd2fJYfGUnqkdz4JLuQa38N+9D6g8 yPLbABEBAAGJAbYEGAEIACAWIQQt4KK7Yr71WYRhiBOAcE/yC/0VdwUCX7hctwIb DAAKCRCAcE/yC/0Vd94EDACghnb9rXxQK63+EGuGTJA0Vm3N9lQXMLXOGx00+p36 vxKDeN+/JIm3aMdP1WdCrZlWLiI8SQUDbFUrG/7j2GmCkVpi2/EOFJBvrTP5zLh4 yHE2ZwaKi+YH+ugUxFXgrWrvn6yQzDetakAnwFvbBTG5uUNgVBqOwCr6MzWKBe/g yruRojHyHTFY6kX3B7RPzzLDc9BnPWdewQLvavsrTKayjuIIhanPKSK9+7sSIybu 0BgGyGBRAaWJ6M1Uh+AURMZLz6l37+/fGJrSzb4DiwvlE4AVSIbY42MVco8GK9tA 8QBeFua4+e4dU7dCUEkTMu5hlIp22Zt1Yktut2IzOzTD7GVvSOoQWYqvLow+6i0V gQ5Tot75wn4zPhyPv7A/iJLmWqxiz1kc2bato1u+3ap9s48UKa7nWMwA78gOAIV8 SUaeoQ1qA859TrFJejISkJEBTMH6tQuPIu17XG/oIABy/WzuGIBeL5X9StZv9a06 H94HvlnAwn48TZxSvamIu5QACgkQgHBP8gv9FXdrfgwAkTdbmaAdT+Zaef/U2osq hvACUNgZ5FepMDU8ot2iRa9SBEQSnJo9eTJrCGoeQqPH+TDbdP/rk6k2JKANdgqz +1wnZS5YqHbPYbIrt7Llj6ShhTL5noAuAGYgAyEKFYZ4QJmIjQGXEPS5rUYTkrIY vFPfqRdJnreqgyfM99avKFS6bK99bnXa2e0a6G264x+09ds0RJHBvbLwDzVCIi7Q NWM8NIaqjKxdYA9MWSQI0dLtsIUPig5Kk9dgivGuLgX0AGWcbHi49w/dtyYzDyP2 f3P+Q6o6ZW3f6r+lTKXz+qFYQmjN7+I9wsw+mEgrDzsZOxbqOqDIi79RrOZR6663 7mbv9Znttf7nJzKbr+4yw8vImDdxmvzxm5yRRhQIP2eCVbcNx7WMDyD/pDb5l5GY hyt9RWpRA2YY8o0I1h4WMhnNAtXu64BHiUUHhCsokG2GqhC8xAEi7XzhdDu4u4yD MY2xvc5Yd7Ffd+iHGAi7ev7iHmVNHOxQig00iPTzf/g/ =jBOu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/RpSae4yHFklxAzIxijmGdDn--
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