Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:31:23 -0700 (MST) From: Scott Long <scottl@freebsd.org> To: Daniel Eischen <eischen@vigrid.com> Cc: FreeBSD current users <current@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: SF Bay area hackfest Message-ID: <20040324002624.T55727@pooker.samsco.home> In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10403240130160.1570-100000@pcnet5.pcnet.com> References: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10403240130160.1570-100000@pcnet5.pcnet.com>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Daniel Eischen wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Scott Long wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Daniel Eischen wrote:
> > >
> > > For the KSE bits, we've already said a few times that we're
> > > ready to go but are waiting for a toolchain upgrade that
> > > supports TLS.
> > >
> > > > going to enforce. I don't want 5.3 to go out with hap-hazard and/or
> > > > unfinished TLS support. SO let me start the list, and I'll let you and
> > > > others add to it. If we can't get through this step, then there is
> > > > absolutely no way that we can expect to get this done for 5.3. And for
> > > > the record, I would really, really like to see this done for 5.3.
> > >
> > > I don't quite understand why you need commitments for a toolchain
> > > upgrade. From what I understand, TLS support can't happen without
> > > it, and by deferring the toolchain update you prevent it from
> > > getting done. But I'll play along regardless...
> >
> > Operating without a plan or commitments leads us back to 2002 with KSE.
> > If TLS needs a new binutils, then we need to figure out who is going to
> > provide that. If no one is going to provide it, then the rest is futile,
> > no?
>
> Right, but the prerequisite for TLS is a new toolchain, not the
> other way around; you don't need TLS support in non-toolchain
> components to update the toolchain. Once the toolchain supports
> TLS, support for it can be added at any time, regardless of whether
> or not it is before or after 5.3. And yes, we (thread-guys) would
> like to support it for 5.3 and have said so for quite some time.
> We've already rearranged our per-{thread,KSE} storage to allow for
> it.
Maybe something got misunderstood, then. My intention was to create
a list of tasks that need to be done in order to reach the final goal of
having TLS work. New binutils is one of those tasks. I also wanted to
stress that each task needs an owner, otherwise it won't get done. Don't
make me pull out MSProject and do this in a Ven diagram =-)
>
> >
> > What happens when the compiler, toolchain, etc, etc, are all updated to
> > make TLS work, but the user libmaps C_R in? Does stuff blow up? I'm ok
> > with C_R not explicitely supporting it so long as it doesn't create new
> > failure cases.
>
> I guess stuff blows up, probably very similar to what already
> happens when someone tries to use nvidia drivers/openGL with
> libpthread or libthr. But as far as I know, nothing we have
> is currently built to use it (it probably can't be because
> our released toolchain first needs to support it).
>
This isn't terribly desirable since C_R is going to be the fallback thread
package for 5.x. Is there any way for C_R to detect when it's in a
position to blow up and/or give an intelligent message to the user?
Scott
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?20040324002624.T55727>