Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2019 12:06:06 +0100 From: Alexander Leidinger <Alexander@leidinger.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Strategic Thinking (was: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components) Message-ID: <20190105120606.Horde.uAUbjCtZfZHG93S2hfmiOCc@webmail.leidinger.net> In-Reply-To: <79545.1546641751@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <201901042219.x04MJf4w085379@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <79545.1546641751@critter.freebsd.dk>
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[-- Attachment #1 --] Quoting Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk> (from Fri, 04 Jan 2019 22:42:31 +0000): > -------- > In message <201901042219.x04MJf4w085379@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net>, > "Rodney W. Grimes" writes: > >>> ... and RPi's, access-points, NAS devices, routers, televisions, >>> photocopiers, >>> sewage-treatment-plant-monitoring, high-voltage-switching, >>> stock-trading, air-traffic-control, scientific super-computing, >>> antiproliferation-monitoring, laptops, desktops and ... >> >> As far as I am concerned Linux can have the datacenter... >> I find this list much more interesting :-) > > Me too. > > Data-centers are booooring! Which means that x developers with commit bits in FreeBSD are free to develop whatever they want. This does not mean that all users of FreeBSD agree. This does not mean that all developers with commit bits in FreeBSD agree. Do you want to limit what y developers with commit bits in FreeBSD are working on? From what I hear here I get the impression that there are people which want to limit that y developers want to explore the benefits of feature A. Nobody told so war we have to import anything into base yet. The initial request was to get an idea about opinions. Nobody told we have to rewrite the kernel in rust, there were infos that there may be benefit in having parts of it in rust, which can be explored e.g. in ports. Nobody asked to replace a critical boot time component. As we are not a company were the people are paid to work on specific items (yes, there are people paid to work in parts, please forgive me that I don't count them here... we don't talk about them doing this work), we can not really tell that this takes away development resources away from other work (those developers may not work on something else, or they may work on something which is not "strategic"). And if you really think that containers (in whatever color... kubernetes, docker, "jails" or whatever) are only datacenter tools... well... have again a look at NAS devices, laptops, and desktop systems (and whatever). I don't have a datacenter at home, but I use a lot of containers at home. I use them in the "jail"-color (every service his own jail, I even have a desktop-setup-in-a-jail...). I don't use them as is, I use tools. ezjail, iocage, whatever color you want. Would openstack be overkill here? Maybe. Maybe not. Would I give it a try if we would have openstack in ports in my basement? Yes I would -- why should I limit myself to linux to have a look at openstack/kubernetes/docker... we have the infrastructure to make it possible (I let it up to you to decide if we have a better infrastructure/base for this or not). I expect in the long run virtualisation and containers arrive in a lot of places, even in those you have listed above as not boring. There are benefits in the upgrade path, there are benefits in handling dependencies (compared to an one box does everything), there are benefits in the security area (yes, we have capsicum which addresses some aspects, but not all as if each part runs in it's own jail). FreeBSD comes from the "power to serve" area. You can off course tell that access-points, NAS devices (which also exist in datacenters...) and routers are "serving", but datacenters are the traditional area of "the power to serve". Basically if you tell that datacenters are boring, you tell that we shall turn around and that e.g. the CDN of Netflix is not the area we want to target (I would not agree that this CDN is some sort of NAS, for me this is more like a web-/ftp-/<protocol_of_the_day>-server, so something which resides traditionally in a datacenter). Bye, Alexander. -- http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander@Leidinger.net: PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild@FreeBSD.org : PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF [-- Attachment #2 --] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAABAgAGBQJcMI+eAAoJEBINsJsD+NiGit8QAJg+cJTn87USUq3cGxCHXd1m IbJ8vKIZiAWuK5vsWBLHVvB/mI1WyMfjJZLjR9s2/IOvfL661vzddA9PjMcQB+H+ uaKBgrmSY3JxAGwwfG/iAj3/L/9DwcSwWxBQTFNcnefS3TcdxO91D2br41IYNbSP j1h0yApWJJGKYsf31VpsOIbmKiymMDJSGo9oIusLURp5gvF8k8K2rq8WjX/wEmpp OHRqJe3j7UyThKVHlqiwtyWv4hCvKdDQPuVISX/abjNPiK+FYoE2rCEPlz2ZrNFu e6Zvt681h+2r9YthypLgmGWe24ccuut4SGw6YykNyoQ5xhe2qma7sgDHAR+2Hd47 2Cns69AZV20D5a1OF/O1VVaHzPXoWwuPaEtP6AJzjGIfj/xoAOzbXcHKo9K/a8qq ZEh1wv/y/C9V3eNPCKRASPKQIh4Zhqe5xh1zDD4I/8NTo9xtuaHPTPAw3lRlep+w YS4lmW8stns49dJLRfPAd1GXHQuEGUqXNNmuTxN0UgJuk/te6zy5FVuO1InJAZCK LVk8lrDYe7K5P3LKCL6JdI07GzcZChELHP2zcpAXqldWFglrFfQd3UpvvYLAAwe2 CpcST+zVHOT4/nyf4KLyud7ahvR14nKLfmCpG9HiwWIe0SEocneMKOTTPQco7RuW 94+tDnJDh95MrMsTJDps =Dmpe -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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