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Date:      Thu, 19 Sep 2002 01:12:29 -0400
From:      Lawrence Sica <lomifeh@earthlink.net>
To:        benjamin@seattleFenix.net
Cc:        Dave Hayes <dave@jetcafe.org>, Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>, chat@freebsd.org, Rahul Siddharthan <rsidd@online.fr>
Subject:   Re: Stolen BSD code found in Linux kernel
Message-ID:  <652D7076-CB8E-11D6-BF28-000393A335A2@earthlink.net>
In-Reply-To: <20020918173426.A40318@mail.seattleFenix.net>

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On Wednesday, Sep 18, 2002, at 20:34 US/Eastern, Benjamin Krueger wrote:

> * Dave Hayes (dave@jetcafe.org) [020918 16:15]:
>> Rahul Siddharthan <rsidd@online.fr> writes:
>>> Dave Hayes wrote:
>>>>>>>> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That says it all, to me.
>>> [...]
>>>> These statistics aren't wildly inaccurate, just inaccurate.  There's
>>>> some information there. There's a relationship there.
>>>
>>> That does not "say it all."
>
> Honestly, it doesn't really say anything. =)
>
>> Um, this was Terry-bait, not Rahul-bait.
>
> Terry-bait, Rahul-bait, Brett-bait, it all tastes the same. Like worms!
>

No the best bait tastes like little balls of dough.  Didn't you ever 
fish?


>>> I'm willing to believe the statistics are totally accurate, in the
>>> sense that those particular machines do indeed have those particular
>>> uptimes.  The point is, it would be moronic to base any sort of
>>> decision on those statistics, given
>>
>> Whether you consider it moronic or not does not make it moronic. =)
>
> It wouldn't be moronic per se, just misleading, foolish, and 
> unscientific. =)
>

one mans moron is another mans guru.....
(meaningless i know)


>> In other words, even though I might agree that it would not be a good
>> idea to base any decision on those statistics, I wouldn't call it
>> "moronic" in public unless I was trying for an effect.
>>
>> The "says it all" is a similar sort of effect.  It brings out a
>> certain type of response, it is a litmus test for a certain
>> manner of interacting with the world.
>>
>> Here's another: There is a significant amount of BSD on that list. The
>> list measures some uptimes of a set of operating systems. Of that set,
>> BSD clearly beats the rest of them, whatever they are.
>
> Beats them how? I bet I could run a tiny web server in DOS for 600 
> days. Does
> that mean it clearly beats the rest of them?
>
> However factual that may be, it is still unrelated to the original 
> issue being
> discussed, which was the use of one piece of BSD code in the Linux 
> kernel. In
> fact, your statement was pretty random. What exactly were you trying 
> to prove
> by showing us the netcraft stats?
>


Well doesn't the highest uptime on a box belong to a netware server?  
Something you'd not use for say web serving, unless you are a masochist 
or something ;).  I am more interested in availability than uptime,  I 
want to know, in the case of a website, that my site is available for 
the world as much as is possible.  I don't care about a 3 am reboot.  
What I do care about is a webcam for a really popular baby panda being 
down just after good Morning America flashes the url all over the 
screen and cnn.com carries a frontpage story on it.  (Yes I dealt with 
that, even got to see the baby up close).


>>> (c) the fact that the sysadmins involved apparently never upgrade 
>>> their
>>>     software -- many of those machines seem to be running
>>>     antique versions of Apache with known security holes.  (Possibly
>>>     they've patched the holes without upgrading.  Then again, 
>>> possibly
>>>     not.)
>>
>> This is something I also noticed. I agree with you, and it could be a
>> potential hit list for script kiddies.
>>

Depends, did they patch it?  Not every patch requires a reboot.  This 
can be misleading without further information.

--Larry


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