Date: Mon, 26 May 2025 22:58:38 +0000 From: Alastair Hogge <agh@riseup.net> To: Tomoaki AOKI <junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp> Cc: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>, Dennis Clarke <dclarke@blastwave.org>, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: With poudriere how does one create a jail of a slightly older RELEASE ? Message-ID: <858a28779b1f95124f8b7bf2f11968ac@riseup.net> In-Reply-To: <20250527011714.7a525ae96279376ab4dad580@dec.sakura.ne.jp> References: <F52C672E-DD47-4347-87C3-3D39ADB717AD.ref@yahoo.com> <F52C672E-DD47-4347-87C3-3D39ADB717AD@yahoo.com> <e2fe2e32-ac7c-4185-8c97-47838b62a22b@blastwave.org> <20250526151416.68ff7c09.grembo@freebsd.org> <e0cc3bf8-aaa8-444a-bb9a-64f7bc047d17@blastwave.org> <CANCZdfqQwsBaM8X-VhqZnQ%2BfrfrW%2BpMGKBsgaKR%2BP8UQwCpsgg@mail.gmail.com> <20250527011714.7a525ae96279376ab4dad580@dec.sakura.ne.jp>
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On 2025-05-27 00:17, Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > On Mon, 26 May 2025 08:36:05 -0600 > Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote: > >> On Mon, May 26, 2025 at 8:14 AM Dennis Clarke <dclarke@blastwave.org> wrote: >> > >> > On 5/26/25 09:14, Michael Gmelin wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > On Mon, 26 May 2025 08:25:50 -0400 >> > > Dennis Clarke <dclarke@blastwave.org> wrote: >> > > >> > >> > >> I have no idea what "MFC" is supposed to mean. >> > >> I guess it is a code change that happened somewhere. >> > >> >> > > >> > > Merge From Current = Merging or back-porting a base commit from CURRENT >> > > (main/base/HEAD) to another, usually lower, FreeBSD version branch. >> > > >> > > https://wiki.freebsd.org/Glossary#MFC_--_Merge_From_Current >> > > >> > > -m >> > > >> > >> > So many places with special terms and stuff buried somewhere. In the >> > last week or so I have discovered https://archive.freebsd.org/ and now >> > there is https://wiki.freebsd.org/ which I have not ever seen once in >> > five or six years of trying to use FreeBSD. Maybe a link or something >> > can be put on the "About" page? https://www.freebsd.org/about/ >> >> Yes. We have our own Jargon that has evolved over the years. Many >> of the terms are used so frequently we forget that people new to the >> project might not understand them. > > Something like MFC but a different term, MFS (Merge From Stable) is > used, too. Means mostly like MFC, but from stable branch like stable/14 > to release engineering (releng) branch like releng/14.2. > In most cases, the changes are the same as MFC, so the term MFC is used. > But MFC to stable branch made some modifications, term MFS should be > used instead to clarify the fact (not always, unfortunately). > > >> > Even more crazy is the way in which FreeBSD is changed and/or fixed. >> > There are bug reports of course but it seems everything really happens >> > in a thing called a Phabricator. >> >> Well, it's even more complicated than that... We have Bugzilla to get bug >> reports, which sometimes have patches. Historically, these patches have been >> neglected, in no small part because many of our developers have a hard >> time saying 'no' especially to something that's ambiguously incorrect or >> that touches a complicated-to-fix area of the tree. Next up is Phabricator, >> which developers use to review changes, but sometimes non-developers >> use it, but we have had a hard time managing that process, so changes often >> get lost. Third, we have github pull requests now that I've been trying to >> establish as a better-managed place to go to contribute. > > Bugzilla would be best for non-developers, as it does not require > patch to file bugs. The downside I see is that there's no assistances > for commenting specific part of the patch (if exist) that is uncertain > or need fix. For example, Bug 286705. > > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=286705 > > Phablicator is the opposite. It (AFAIK) requires codes (patches|diffs) > to review on reporting. But reviewers and/or aubscribers can comment > directly to specific part of codes/diffs, allowing precise discussions > about proposed changes/additions. > > For example, I basically use Bugzilla when I don't have patch > to review (or having patch to upgrade like Bug 287021). > > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=287021 > > Once I can create patch, I recently open a review for it > like Differentioal revision D50487. > > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D50487 > > And if the patch is intended NOT to affect users (infrastructial > changes only), I simply open review without filing Bug to Bugzilla > like D50142. > > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D50142 > > And an example of a review with comments to the patch itself. > > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D49982 > > > Currently GitHub pull request is no-go for me, as its accounts are NOT > managed neither by FreeBSD project and/or FreeBSD foundation. GitHub is another Walled Garden. You need an account to read code on it's platform, and they are terrible at providing access to new subscribers. I am on my second account, and none of my up upstream Issues are appearing. A migration to Github will be a direct attack on those who take a principled position against surveillance platforms, and corporate mono-cultures. > If creating github.freebsd.org that its accounts are managed by > FreeBSD project and/or FreeBSD foundation, I'll be happy to register. The great thing about Bugzilla, and Phabricator, one does not need to grasp the git branching dance, and can instead produce git-formatted-patches from a git worktree for submission. This is a lot closer to patches via email, a wonderful process that is losing favor these days. >> > It really is a great UNIX implementation and runs like a charm as a >> > server but the skills required are all over the place and no where and >> > everywhere and yeah ... thanks to this mail list I can at least keep a >> > few things running. To quote a really cool guy that is an expert at such >> > things "If it breaks you can keep both pieces." >> >> We also do try to document everything in the FreeBSD handbook, but >> sometimes it's a bit out of date because there's been lots of change and >> innovation over the years. >> >> Warner
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