Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 10:50:24 -1000 From: Robert L Sowders <rsowders@usgs.gov> To: ChrisC <chrisc123@cox.net> Cc: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Where to find good/cheap tech support Message-ID: <OF6982B88E.D4930FE0-ON88256FEF.0072411D@usgs.gov>
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Redhat is not free anymore my friend. It's close to 800 now. Fedora is
free but is unstable.
Try CentOS, the free Redhat clone.
Either way, the support costs are the same.
There is no free lunch, learn it yourself, or pay someone who has.
rls
ChrisC <chrisc123@cox.net>
Sent by: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
04/26/2005 01:58 AM
To: <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
cc:
Subject: RE: Where to find good/cheap tech support
I guess we are going with RedHat on this server. I would have preferred
FreeBSD :(
This was just meant to be a little question on where to get help that fits
our budget, nothing more.
For those that like to poke and hit.... I'm just a little employee doing
what I can with what I'm given.
At 4/26/2005 01:31 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org wrote:
> > You seem to be making assumptions and are looking into this
> > to deeply
> > my friend. But thanks for the feedback anyway :) -
> > The $150 was only an arbitrary number thats common in the field. I
> > could have chosen another number. It would not have mattered, the
> > question would have been the same.
>
>That is baloney, when you titled the post good/CHEAP, quite obviously the
>number matters greatly.
>
> > -
> > The SCSI adapter is an Adaptec Ultra320 built into a $3000+ 1U web
> > server and not a common inexpensive controller. Since it works fine
> > for both RedHat and Windows we are probably going to go with
> > another OS on this server other than FreeBSD.
>
>Um, that would be Windows, right? That is, your going to drop an
>additional
>$1200 on Windows OS and licensing for it just because you don't want to
>drop $150 into an hour of support?
>
>If that isn't true then why are you even listing Windows here? Windows
>isn't
>a UNIX OS, and has no relevance to anything. Is it because your thinking
>that if you tell us Windows runs on this server that we are all going to
>be
>real impressed? Aren't you forgetting a lot of us already run 1U
>webservers
>fine with FreeBSD with no problems?
>
>The fact RedHat runs on this is significant since the FreeBSD and RedHat
>Adaptec driver have a common ancestor.
>
> > Why arm wrestle the
> > situation when no one seems to know the solution to our issue. -
>
>Simple, because the OS is free. If you want to save the money on
>licensing
>fees then you spend your time arm wrestling problems when they come up.
>
>If you own a car and you want to save a lot of money on mechanics fees
>then
>you learn how to fix it, buy a lot of tools, and do the work yourself.
>Why
>is this any different with operating systems?
>
> > And I am in a VERY small company that could barely pay for what we
> > just purchased. We where lucky to get what we did and the idea of
> > having a duplicate is wishful thinking and not realistic, so thats
> > a risk we will have to take until we can afford better solutions.
>
>In short, you overreached yourself. So let me ask you, why should
>customers
>use you when your competition has actually spent the money for backup
>servers?
>
>I work for a small company too, lots of people do that is no excuse. But
>when I have a problem, such a fielding a mailserver, that really ought to
>have a backup server, if I have $3K to spend on it, I don't run out and
>buy a new server. I instead get creative and perhaps buy 2 used servers
>at $1500, or roll my own clones, or get a leasing company involved, etc.
>
>I don't shortchange my customers because I'm not willing to gamble with
>their livelihoods. Sure, I may not be out there saying to them that I
>have a brand new P4 3Ghz server for them like you are, but I am telling
>them
>that for what they need, a P4 3Ghz server won't be any different than a
>P3 1.5Ghz system, (which it isn't) and that I have redundancies in that
>P3 1.5Ghz network that allow me to guarentee to them that if my server
>blows
>chunks that I will have them back online within 20 minutes.
>
> > Its not the perfect situation but its the best we can do with what
> > we have.
>
>No, it isn't.
>
> > I would love a new house but the cold numbers dictate
> > what's really possible right now. -
>
>No, they don't. You are simply making up justfications for yourself to
>try to sleep better at night. You don't have the moral leg to stand on
>to
>sell server services to your customers, because when your customers buy
>services from you there is an implied understanding that they are buying
>server services that are done in a professional manner, better than they
>could do them.
>
>And if you aren't selling server services to customers, but instead using
>this server for your own business, the moral issues still remain because
>your customers depend on your product, and if you go offline a week
>because
>your all-the-eggs-in-one-basket solution blew chunks, then your still
>affecting your customers.
>
>I'm sure you can probably go on making excuses, but I'm not interested
>in them. You said you couldn't afford to have the server down for
>days at a time. Well, either that was a baldfaced lie and you were
>full of crap, or your abrogating your responsibility to provide solid
>IT services and infrastructure. Sites that cannot afford to have
>a server down for days at a time MUST have backup servers, it is simple
>as that, and no amount of whining and excuses justify anything different.
>
> > Now if your interested in the problem, here is the support
> > issue/question no one seems to have any clue about..... -
> > I am attempting to install FreeBSD 5.3 onto a new server, but
> > during the initial bootup it fails / times out from what I think
> > is it trying
> > to initialize the SCSI adapter. The server has an Adaptec AIC-7902
> > dual-channel Ultra320 SCSI controller which the i386 ahd(4)
> > driver has
> > listed as a supported device.
> > -
> > I have been reading and searching this lists archives as well as
> > the bsdforums.org site for possible solutions, but so far what I
> > have found has not worked. I have tried disabling/enabling ACPI,
> > removing all but one SCSI drive and re-checking the adapter
> > settings comparing them to a different Adaptec controller on
> > another server running FreeBSD 5.3 which works fine. The servers
> > BIOS and firmware
> > is all up
> > to date and is mainly running on its default settings. -
>
>Have you looked at PR kern/71778 it is still open, is applicable to
>your problem. You should post followup to it with the same output
>as requested "pciconf -lv". You should also check out FreeBSD release
>4.11 on this system, as the original creator of that PR did.
>
>Without feedback the developers do not know there is a problem. The
>Questions mailing list is NOT the place for submitting bugs to
>FreeBSD. It is rather where people who don't know better get their
>paradigm adjusted to be realistic, or if their too emotionally envolved
>in their
>excus.. paradigm adjusted and cannot take the forced therapy, then they
>get pissed off
>and go away and run Windows or something and sooth their ruffled feathers
>by telling themselves they were right all along.
>
>The fact that someone else has a similar problem with this
>chipset is a much better indicator it's a driver bug than the original
>single post to the PR, and much more likely to get the driver author
>to take a look at it. If the driver author does not look at it I am
>sorry about that, but I would bet that if you offered him half the amount
>of money as what it would cost to run Windows on this server of yours
>that
>the bug would be fixed quickly.
>
>But of course, you won't do that because you seem to have a moral
>adversion
>to spending money on software or support. Hardware I guess is OK to
>spend
>money on, with a grudge, I guess.
>
>I wonder how long you would stay in business if all your customers had
>this
>same money spending attitude to your product?
>
>Ted
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