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Date:      Sat, 02 Jun 2001 00:02:41 -0500
From:      "Jeffrey J. Mountin" <jeff-ml@mountin.net>
To:        John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>, stable@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: CVSup minor port problem today
Message-ID:  <4.3.2.20010601232555.01a757f0@207.227.119.2>
In-Reply-To: <200105292010.f4TKAI423356@vashon.polstra.com>
References:  <5.1.0.14.0.20010529054622.00a02110@jeff.isni.net> <3B1327DC.14080.5CA955C@localhost> <3B1327DC.14080.5CA955C@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20010529054622.00a02110@jeff.isni.net>

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At 01:10 PM 5/29/01 -0700, John Polstra wrote:

>I spent a couple of years regularly ragging on people to check the
>archives.  Guess what?  It doesn't work and it's a waste of time.
>It just makes us all look like a bunch of grumps.  (Not to mention
>that the search engine isn't working too well these days.)  If these
>repeats are annoying you, then your best bet is to filter them
>locally or ignore them some other way.  Leave it to those who are
>willing (like Peter Pentchev, David Chapman, and me) to answer these
>questions.  Really, sometimes you just have to accept reality and face
>the fact that your ideal world is unachievable.  There are people who
>will check the archives and there are people who won't in a million
>years.  And there are people who check the archives but don't find
>what they were looking for.  Get over it and learn to ignore the
>messages that annoy you.

How about then at least pointing out that the -stable list isn't for port 
specific questions.  Now I suppose I could come up with figures and such to 
back my point, but subjectively see an increase in such things and this 
CVSup issue makes it clear that most come here rather than on the ports 
list and the worst part is few every point out the fact a question would be 
more appropriate on another list.  I am NOT saying that one shouldn't help 
anyone, but at least point out where such things belong.

As you say it is not an ideal world, but could also point out that people 
were tracking stuff and at the minimum skimming the mail then would already 
have known about this and other issues.  More so when they get such exposure.

If the S/N ratio keeps degrading, then this list will become less and less 
useful.

Still trying to figure out what the "Digital Camera" thread had to do with 
tracking -stable.  One -core member did mention where the question belonged 
and other add his .02, so much for a consistent policy the coincides with 
the charter.

Perhaps I should keep track, problem is the list is growing faster and that 
takes time better spent elsewhere, and present my case in the hopes this 
list will settle down a bit.  Of course that is an ideal world problem 
again and given that most are too lazy to figure things out for themselves 
or pay attention.


 From another viewpoint it might be that in trying to be more friendly to 
new users the trade off is the list and others that are supposed to have a 
more specific focus will just have to go to $hit and that is that.


All I'd ask for is those that have been around here a while to show a bit 
of leadership and try to improve the quality of this list and 
others.  Hardly expect nothing off-topic to ever come up, but would hope it 
doesn't turn into a long discussion on photography, the legal ramifications 
of various licensing methods, why some video card isn't supported, and 
what's the best software for blah and why the port of it doesn't compile.

Answer the question, so as John say here we don't look like a bunch of 
grumps, but point out where they belong, so you don't encourage others with 
less restraint.


This is a request to members of this list and not a subject for discussion 
really.  As this is a new month, think I might just try and track messages 
and bring this up with core.

thanks


Jeff Mountin - jeff@mountin.net
Systems/Network Administrator
FreeBSD - the power to serve


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