Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:24:54 +0930 From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com> To: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tiananmen square (was: Does it's true?) Message-ID: <19980630132454.S1880@freebie.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <199806300345.VAA24697@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Mon, Jun 29, 1998 at 09:45:36PM -0600 References: <19980629143707.Q897@freebie.lemis.com> <199806300345.VAA24697@softweyr.com>
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On Monday, 29 June 1998 at 21:45:36 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > My hidden microphone recorded Greg Lehey (grog@lemis.com) saying: > >> 1. Forced abortion and forced sterilization. For Christians, of >> course, an abomination. In China, quite possibly law. Yes, I can >> believe they do this. After seeing what has happened in the 30 >> years between my two visits to India, I can understand the Chinese >> view. > > There are absolute wrongs in this life, and the killing of innocents > is at the top of the list. Well, we could discuss that, but let's take it for now. OK. Based on that logic, which is worse: killing a thousand innocents or a million? >> 2. "Simply killed outright". Did she bring documentation of this as >> well? How often? Where? Why? If they had the power to kill, >> they had the power to anaesthetize and sterilize. > > Yes, she did. It apparently happened "several times" in her tenure, with > women who were so hysterical the clinic staff could not deal with them. The > clinic staff called the police, and the police killed these women. This was > apparently done to discourage violent resistance. These killings were > apparently documented in the medical records of these women kept by the > clinic. Hmm. Where? > The cinderblock incident I mentioned, however, was only one of many acts of > premeditated violence that took place during that time, several of which I > have physical scars from. Institutionalized violence frightens me far more > than the random meanderings of morally deficient individuals, but I have grown > up in a country where institutionalized violence is relatively rare, and > generally condemned. Hmm. At this stage I can't see a big difference between police shooting hysterical women and the "accidental" fatal police shootings which happen more often than people would like to admit even in countries with good human rights records. >>>>> Let's not forget where the criminals in China are - the government >>>>> itself. >>>> >>>> I think that claim needs a little justification. >>> >>> See the above-mentioned report by the Chinese "welfare worker." >> >> Let's see a URL or something. I'm not denying that this happened. >> After all, even in Australia (and quite possibly in the US) forced >> sterilizations have been practised. The difference is that in >> Australia they had only a very tenuous legal basis. > > I'll call the local affiliates and find out which network aired the segment. > I doubt you'll find them on-line; they make money charging for their > typewritten transcripts. This doesn't exactly make them more convincing. Don't get me wrong, I realise that China has a long way to go. I'm not doubting anything that you've said, but my own experience has shown that things aren't always quite the way the reports make them seem. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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